CCTV on trains.

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Most trains are now fitted with CCTV and it got me thinking as to how they were used and operated. Some of the services i have travelled on get lots of School children using them and they run riot around the train and even on the stations when they are waiting.

Lets use 156401 as an example:

1) This unit has two carriages, so is there 1 or 2 recording boxes and how much footage can it film before it becomes overwritten?

2) Say whilst 156401 is in service, can someone at EMT log into the units CCTV and watch it in real time (or LIVE as it were), or do they have to wait until the unit gets back to depot for the CCTV to be downloaded.

3) Does CCTV ever get watched or spot checked, or does someone only check the units CCTV if there has been a reported incident on that unit.

4) On EMT units they have a forward and backward facing camera on the 2nd mans side of the cab, when the unit is in service do both cab cameras record or is it just the leading cab.

5) Say the unit has been idling at a station and the engines shut themselves down, does the cctv stop working until the train is started up again?
 
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Schnellzug

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I suppose, - I trust - that it's only used retrospectively in case of vandalism or if there's a Crime of some sort. i suppose the data's retained for a certain amount of time, and then over-written, I think that's how they usually work. I've no complaint about CCTV if it's just used for that, but I think being able to be monitor it live in real time would be a rather Sinister development.
 

millemille

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Most trains are now fitted with CCTV and it got me thinking as to how they were used and operated. Some of the services i have travelled on get lots of School children using them and they run riot around the train and even on the stations when they are waiting.

Lets use 156401 as an example:

1) This unit has two carriages, so is there 1 or 2 recording boxes and how much footage can it film before it becomes overwritten?

2) Say whilst 156401 is in service, can someone at EMT log into the units CCTV and watch it in real time (or LIVE as it were), or do they have to wait until the unit gets back to depot for the CCTV to be downloaded.

3) Does CCTV ever get watched or spot checked, or does someone only check the units CCTV if there has been a reported incident on that unit.

4) On EMT units they have a forward and backward facing camera on the 2nd mans side of the cab, when the unit is in service do both cab cameras record or is it just the leading cab.

5) Say the unit has been idling at a station and the engines shut themselves down, does the cctv stop working until the train is started up again?

I'd suggest that the information you are asking for is not suitable for the public domain, given that it reveals fundamental security information in these security heightened times.
 

Schnellzug

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I'd suggest that the information you are asking for is not suitable for the public domain, given that it reveals fundamental security information in these security heightened times.

isn't that no. 34 on the Automated Announcements menu?
Anyway, what Fundamental Security information would that reveal? How would that help The Terrorists?
 

ralphchadkirk

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I suppose, - I trust - that it's only used retrospectively in case of vandalism or if there's a Crime of some sort. i suppose the data's retained for a certain amount of time, and then over-written, I think that's how they usually work. I've no complaint about CCTV if it's just used for that, but I think being able to be monitor it live in real time would be a rather Sinister development.

SWT CCTV can be monitored in real time by the Guard on 444 services. They may also be able to access it at control - I'm not sure.
 

Schnellzug

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SWT CCTV can be monitored in real time by the Guard on 444 services. They may also be able to access it at control - I'm not sure.

Ah, yes, they can do that on buses as well can't they, where the driver can see it. of course, that's a bit different from some Big Brother somewhere being able to watch what everyone is doing on every single train in real time; i think maybe that's stretching optimism or paranoia (depending on your point of view) a bit.
 

BestWestern

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I would very much doubt that any TOC would have installed the capability to watch CCTV in realtime. It would be a very expensive system to fit, and would more than likely need base stations across the network in order to maintain a decent signal, in the same way that cab to shore radio does. In addition, there are the dreaded Data Protection rules which dictate that it is only supposed to be accessed with good reason and if certain criteria are met, or at least that's what my TOC tells us anyway.

The mechanics of it are known only to those who design and fit it, and probably differ from train to train and system to system. I would agree that the finer details are probably best kept that way, let's just say that it's there and it can see us all!
 

Kneedown

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Having just completed a year long stint as a Driver Manager i was involved with CCTV a fair bit.
Basically, all cameras are operating all the time, even when the unit is shut down. Footage is recorded on a hard drive, one per coach (i will not divulge the locations but they vary between classes of unit) and although "real time" footage is not possible to the best of my knowledge, it is a 2 minute job to retrieve a hard drive and fit another, then connecting the original hard drive to a laptop. We could be viewing and saving images of the incident less than 10 minutes after the train arrives.
Normally we use the footage ourselves to investigate incidents such as SPAD's, near misses and fatalities. We will also supply footage to the BTP via a designated person who has received the appropriate disclosure training. This will be done in cases such as assaults on trains, thefts etc.
I'm not sure the exact length of time a single hard drive will record for, and i don't think i would impart that knowledge if i did, but rest assured it is a considerable length of time, and if a hard drive is removed for any reason it is immediately replaced with another.
We didn't download footage at random, only in response to incidents.

Hope this helps.
 

dosxuk

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I helped install a few CCTV systems last summer (not on a train), one of which had 32 cameras, recording continuously (in what the CCTV industry describe as HD), with a capacity of over three months. The equipment we used also had mobile apps, which worked over 3G, and would give you real time access to any of the cameras.

The CCTV boxes didn't care what their connection was, they would alter the video compression to cope with the available bandwidth, so I see no reason why you couldn't install one on a moving vehicle with a 3G modem, and then view the camera feeds on a desktop machine in an office.

Also, the equipment we were using, while not cheap, it also wasn't expensive. I would imagine that if we had that sort of capability, the TOCs would be able to do all of that, if not more on their equipment and budget.
 

WatcherZero

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I would very much doubt that any TOC would have installed the capability to watch CCTV in realtime. It would be a very expensive system to fit, and would more than likely need base stations across the network in order to maintain a decent signal, in the same way that cab to shore radio does.

Its a requested feature of the next version of GSM-R, a seperate frequency allocation for non-critical data services like CCTV video back to control or airline style information services onboard trains.
 

Kneedown

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Further to my previous post, i should add that during retrieval of footage and transfer to other parties, a "chain of custody" procedure is followed.
 

Metrailway

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London Underground's S Stock has CCTV which can be viewed in real time by the driver if the driver chooses to. If a passenger alarm is activated, the in-cab monitors switch automatically to the camera closest to the alarm.
 

6Gman

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Most trains are now fitted with CCTV and it got me thinking as to how they were used and operated. Some of the services i have travelled on get lots of School children using them and they run riot around the train and even on the stations when they are waiting.

My local newspaper has a story this week. BT Police are looking for two suspects who abused a passenger between Liverpool and Crewe.

The victim was a 14 year old lad. The suspects are two women - from the on-train CCTV images they look 50s and 70s.

Funny world!
 

Skoodle

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378s have 26 cameras on board and can be viewed realtime by the driver and played back later in cab or downloaded.
 
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