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Celia Drummond replacement

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stan claire

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As Celia passed away a few years ago, are TOCs such as Northern planning on keeping her voice long term or if not who will she be replaced by? The only other voices by KeTech are Scottish and Irish so they won't use them as a replacement.
 
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irish_rail

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As Celia passed away a few years ago, are TOCs such as Northern planning on keeping her voice long term or if not who will she be replaced by? The only other voices by KeTech are Scottish and Irish so they won't use them as a replacement.
Heaven forbid!
 

stadler

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As Celia passed away a few years ago, are TOCs such as Northern planning on keeping her voice long term or if not who will she be replaced by? The only other voices by KeTech are Scottish and Irish so they won't use them as a replacement.
I was wondering about this too. I am sure they probably will eventually replace her. Although i hope not as she is one of the best announcers of all time.

On the Ketech system at Northern stations some words and phrases (such as "Lumo" and "for a connecting bus service" and other newly added announcements) are voiced by a new lady. I am not sure who this is but it sounds very much like that "Only Woman" lady from the old Amey system. So perhaps whoever this lady is will be the Celia Drummond replacement.

The other question is how much longer Chiltern and Northern will use Ketech for. So many operators have switched to the cheaper Atos Worldline system recently and some have switched to the Blackbox "Ivona Amy" Text To Speech system too. So depending on how much longer Chiltern and Northern keep Ketech for they may not need a replacement.

Heaven forbid!
Celia Drummond is used for some announcements in Ireland currently so you never know! To be honest i would not mind Alison Mckay being used in England as she has a very nice sounding and easy to understand voice!
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Celia Drummond is used for some announcements in Ireland currently so you never know! To be honest i would not mind Alison Mckay being used in England as she has a very nice sounding and easy to understand voice!
When you think how much of a fuss the Scottish would kick up about an English accent (even though RP is considered "neutral") being used there, I don't see why it's therefore acceptable to use a Scottish accent in England if it isn't the other way round.
 

stadler

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When you think how much of a fuss the Scottish would kick up about an English accent (even though RP is considered "neutral") being used there, I don't see why it's therefore acceptable to use a Scottish accent in England if it isn't the other way round.
Oh i agree definitely. I remember there used to be complaints in the Scottish newspapers when that posh English RP male voice was used on Scotrail trains in the early 2000s (before they switched to the miserable sounding "Sonya" voice) so i think it is certainly right that people in England want an English accent. I think an English accent should definitely be used at English stations. I was just saying that Alison Mckay has a nice clear easy to understand voice and her Scottish accent is not too strong so using her would not be a bad choice. But personally i think an English RP voice is really the ideal voice for station announcements. With an English RP voice this is the easiest for everyone to understand. I think people like Celia Drummond and Phil Sayer and "Only Woman" have all worked so well at stations because they have nice easy to understand voices without a strong accent or anything.
 

Peter0124

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The face mask announcements were English and were broadcast in Glasgow train stations.


*Rant Alert*
Id love if they got rid of the Scottish Female voice that replaced Alison McKay on Argyle/North Clyde around 2019. Alison was 100x better and is only used up north now, and on the Ayrshire and GSW lines.

Or heck bring in Anne from ATOS. Very good announcer. Anything but the current ones used in Glasgow nowadays. Even the miscellaneous announcements in Glasgow not voiced by Scottish Female sound rough. Maybe that's just me hating the Glasgow accent, because those same announcements voiced by someone else up north (Perth) sounded far nicer.

Anne already announces some Scotrail services at Carlisle.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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Ruth works well but her intonation is just very odd. She tends to stress the first word when it should be the second.

Barry Island (should be Barry Island) - only wrong on board trains, correct on platforms
Merthyr Tydfil (should be Merthyr Tydfil) - only wrong on board trains, correct on platforms

Calling at Bristol Parkway (should be Bristol Parkway) / Bristol Temple Meads (should be Bristol Temple Meads) / Cardiff Central (should be Cardiff Central) / Craven Arms (should be Craven Arms) etc.
 

stadler

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The face mask announcements were English and were broadcast in Glasgow train stations.


*Rant Alert*
Id love if they got rid of the Scottish Female voice that replaced Alison McKay on Argyle/North Clyde around 2019. Alison was 100x better and is only used up north now, and on the Ayrshire and GSW lines.

Or heck bring in Anne from ATOS. Very good announcer. Anything but the current ones used in Glasgow nowadays. Even the miscellaneous announcements in Glasgow not voiced by Scottish Female sound rough. Maybe that's just me hating the Glasgow accent, because those same announcements voiced by someone else up north (Perth) sounded far nicer.

Anne already announces some Scotrail services at Carlisle.
The face mask announcements were just recorded by staff members. Scotrail have lots of announcements like that are just quickly recorded by staff members and loaded on to the system. They are not part of the main automated announcement system.

I do not mind "Scottish Female" and i think she sounds decent but she does sound a bit more amateur and the system is very basic. Alison Mckay is certainly better although you also have to remember that Alison Mckay is a professional voice over artist and "Scottish Female" is just a Network Rail staff member. I think that ASL are a lot cheaper than Ketech so that is why a lot of stations switched.

The lady who did the old automated announcements at Edinburgh Waverley in the late 1990s and early 2000s was brilliant. She should have been rolled out all over the Scotrail network. She had a great sounding voice.

Ruth works well but her intonation is just very odd. She tends to stress the first word when it should be the second.

Barry Island (should be Barry Island) - only wrong on board trains, correct on platforms
Merthyr Tydfil (should be Merthyr Tydfil) - only wrong on board trains, correct on platforms

Calling at Bristol Parkway (should be Bristol Parkway) / Bristol Temple Meads (should be Bristol Temple Meads) / Cardiff Central (should be Cardiff Central) / Craven Arms (should be Craven Arms) etc.
I really like the Ruth announcements. Ruth is definitely the best of the Atos Worldline announcers by far. I would be happy if she was rolled out on the Atos Worldline system across the UK. To be fair there are plenty of announcers that get their intonations wrong so it is not a problem unique to her.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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To be fair there are plenty of announcers that get their intonations wrong so it is not a problem unique to her.
But her intonations are ones that should really be quite obvious. Something island and Something Central, the emphasis is almost always going to go on the Island and Central part.
 

irish_rail

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When you think how much of a fuss the Scottish would kick up about an English accent (even though RP is considered "neutral") being used there, I don't see why it's therefore acceptable to use a Scottish accent in England if it isn't the other way round.
Oh come on, just because there is a small proportion that would kick off over an English accent in Scotland, must we sink to that level? Provided the voice is clear and easy to understand i don't care if they originate from Timbuktu!
 

Scotrail12

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ATOS Anne is pretty bad IMO, I could never imagine her voice in Glasgow Central or Edinburgh Waverley. Keep her in England please.

Love Alison McKay's voice, though she did scare me a little bit as a child. I wish ScotRail or another company would use her again.
 

Peter0124

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Yes, would like Alison McKay to be rolled out again in Glasgow suburbia but as she's on a different system I'm worried it wont happen. Bizarrely Rutherglen was voiced by her, but one stop down at Cambuslang (and beyond) and you had Scottish Female

Anne, despite probably being an employee is actually really good imo and would actually like to see her do the voice of Glasgow Central / Queen St and Edinburgh Waverley. A good announcer for larger stations in particular.
 
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Purple Train

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Ruth works well but her intonation is just very odd. She tends to stress the first word when it should be the second.

Barry Island (should be Barry Island) - only wrong on board trains, correct on platforms
Merthyr Tydfil (should be Merthyr Tydfil) - only wrong on board trains, correct on platforms

Calling at Bristol Parkway (should be Bristol Parkway) / Bristol Temple Meads (should be Bristol Temple Meads) / Cardiff Central (should be Cardiff Central) / Craven Arms (should be Craven Arms) etc.
I usually hedge my bets and stress both, and speak verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry, verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slooooooooowly. I could never be an announcer full stop, but especially not on a suburban line where most stations have multiple-word names!

Personally, I really like the Martin Oldfield announcements on 333s, and Justine Harris on Azumas (well, I like Justine Harris's voice, not the wording of the announcements!) - so, if I had to pick two announcers from anywhere on the network, I'd pick those two.

In terms of more plausible replacements, I also very much like Alison McKay's announcements.
 

DelW

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Ruth works well but her intonation is just very odd. She tends to stress the first word when it should be the second.

Barry Island (should be Barry Island) - only wrong on board trains, correct on platforms
Merthyr Tydfil (should be Merthyr Tydfil) - only wrong on board trains, correct on platforms

Calling at Bristol Parkway (should be Bristol Parkway) / Bristol Temple Meads (should be Bristol Temple Meads) / Cardiff Central (should be Cardiff Central) / Craven Arms (should be Craven Arms) etc.

But her intonations are ones that should really be quite obvious. Something island and Something Central, the emphasis is almost always going to go on the Island and Central part.
I suspect that the words are recorded separately and assembled by the software.

On the South Western route to Epsom, the announcements always stressed "Park", as in Raynes PARK, Motspur PARK, Worcester PARK, and the three "parks" sounded identical. You'd never speak them that way, so I'm fairly sure they'd been recorded separately.
 

PGAT

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I suspect that the words are recorded separately and assembled by the software.

On the South Western route to Epsom, the announcements always stressed "Park", as in Raynes PARK, Motspur PARK, Worcester PARK, and the three "parks" sounded identical. You'd never speak them that way, so I'm fairly sure they'd been recorded separately.
Yep, they’re recorded separately
 

londonmidland

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Before Arriva took over the Northern franchise, Anne used to be at their stations in Greater Manchester and Merseyside.

I wonder if Northern will switch back to ATOS anytime soon?
 

Parallel

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KeTech seem to be using "The Only Woman" to infill things Celia is missing such as Lumo and information on connecting bus services so maybe they will just carry on doing that for the forseeable? To be fair, Alison wouldn't sound out of place in England, she already has a lot of the Northern network recorded and she doesn't have a particularly strong accent so wouldn't sound too out of place. I'm not a fan of Matt's announcements, he uses too much vocal fry in my opinion and rushes through the calling points at stations.

But her intonations are ones that should really be quite obvious. Something island and Something Central, the emphasis is almost always going to go on the Island and Central part.
To be fair, ATW/TfW can be blamed for her on board intonations being off because they've uploaded the mid-sentence ones for the 'This train is for...' when it should be the end of sentence ones.

ATOS uses three recordings per station, start of sentence, mid sentence and end of sentence. Her start of sentence 'Bristol Temple Meads' occasionally heard at Newport puts more emphasis on the 'MEADS' and less on the 'Bristol'. This seems to be similar for most of her start of sentence recordings as she does it for 'Craven ARMS, Cardiff CENTRAL' etc too. But her mid-sentence ones are 'CRAVEN Arms' and 'CARDIFF Central'. Maybe they should've used her start of sentence ones for on board vice mid-sentence for them to flow better.
 

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  • Ruth Eryl Newport 1508 to Cardiff Central app.mp3
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  • Ruth Eryl Newport 1503 to Plymouth.mp3
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Peter0124

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Not to mention Alison voices the announcements of LNER services at stations north of Edinburgh.
 

Peter0124

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He’s way too joe-down-the-road to voice train announcements. He sounds ridiculous.
I think he's alright tbh. I would much rather him than the current ones in Glasgow doing the misc announcements (ie tactile paving/61016) or Scottish Female.
 
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Geeves

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No plans at Northern at least to move away from Ketech and that's coming down to us from the top guy that brought Ketech in, in the first place. As a user of both I preferred the ATOS system but hey ho!
 

thedbdiboy

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As Celia passed away a few years ago, are TOCs such as Northern planning on keeping her voice long term or if not who will she be replaced by? The only other voices by KeTech are Scottish and Irish so they won't use them as a replacement.
For those that don't know, Celia Drummond (Celia Humphris) was a noted singer earlier in her career, including the vocals on the two incredibly sought after albums by the folk-rock group The Trees, issued in the early 1970s
 

londonmidland

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No plans at Northern at least to move away from Ketech and that's coming down to us from the top guy that brought Ketech in, in the first place. As a user of both I preferred the ATOS system but hey ho!
I don’t know if this is a KeTech issue but so many of Northern’s stations have their P.A volume way too low, to the point where you can barely hear anything. I’m not sure whether it was the same when they still had their ATOS installation.
 

Peter0124

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I don’t know if this is a KeTech issue but so many of Northern’s stations have their P.A volume way too low, to the point where you can barely hear anything. I’m not sure whether it was the same when they still had their ATOS installation.
It's certainly audible in Sunderland, probably down to the fact its underground
 

stadler

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Yes, would like Alison McKay to be rolled out again in Glasgow suburbia but as she's on a different system I'm worried it wont happen. Bizarrely Rutherglen was voiced by her, but one stop down at Cambuslang (and beyond) and you had Scottish Female

Anne, despite probably being an employee is actually really good imo and would actually like to see her do the voice of Glasgow Central / Queen St and Edinburgh Waverley. A good announcer for larger stations in particular.
Cambuslang and Rutherglen are on two different LLPA systems. There are eight different LLPA covering the Scotrail network. Cambuslang is part of Motherwell LLPA where as Rutherglen is part of North Clyde LLPA instead. For many years the North Clyde LLPA was Ketech (Alison Mckay) before switching to ASL ("Scottish Female") where as the Motherwell LLPA was always on the ASL ("Scottish Female") system.

Apparently the Ayrshire LLPA is supposed to be getting switched from Ketech (Alison Mckay) to ASL ("Scottish Female") at some point soon but it has not happened yet.

I am not much of a fan of Anne announcements but i would definitely prefer Anne at Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central High Level and Glasgow Queen Street Low Level instead of the current Karen Cunningham announcements.

I usually hedge my bets and stress both, and speak verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry, verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slooooooooowly. I could never be an announcer full stop, but especially not on a suburban line where most stations have multiple-word names!

Personally, I really like the Martin Oldfield announcements on 333s, and Justine Harris on Azumas (well, I like Justine Harris's voice, not the wording of the announcements!) - so, if I had to pick two announcers from anywhere on the network, I'd pick those two.

In terms of more plausible replacements, I also very much like Alison McKay's announcements.
Martin Oldfield is a great voice. They should have rolled him out to the entire Northern fleet as his voice works very well. He would be a good replacement for Phil Sayer at the stations too.

I suspect that the words are recorded separately and assembled by the software.

On the South Western route to Epsom, the announcements always stressed "Park", as in Raynes PARK, Motspur PARK, Worcester PARK, and the three "parks" sounded identical. You'd never speak them that way, so I'm fairly sure they'd been recorded separately.
I do not think they are recorded separately. I have seen plenty of original announcement files and station names with more than one word are always still recorded as one file. So i think station names are almost always recorded all in one go as one file. Different parts of announcements will be all recorded separately and the software pieces them together but station names are almost always recorded as one recording.

KeTech seem to be using "The Only Woman" to infill things Celia is missing such as Lumo and information on connecting bus services so maybe they will just carry on doing that for the forseeable? To be fair, Alison wouldn't sound out of place in England, she already has a lot of the Northern network recorded and she doesn't have a particularly strong accent so wouldn't sound too out of place. I'm not a fan of Matt's announcements, he uses too much vocal fry in my opinion and rushes through the calling points at stations.


To be fair, ATW/TfW can be blamed for her on board intonations being off because they've uploaded the mid-sentence ones for the 'This train is for...' when it should be the end of sentence ones.

ATOS uses three recordings per station, start of sentence, mid sentence and end of sentence. Her start of sentence 'Bristol Temple Meads' occasionally heard at Newport puts more emphasis on the 'MEADS' and less on the 'Bristol'. This seems to be similar for most of her start of sentence recordings as she does it for 'Craven ARMS, Cardiff CENTRAL' etc too. But her mid-sentence ones are 'CRAVEN Arms' and 'CARDIFF Central'. Maybe they should've used her start of sentence ones for on board vice mid-sentence for them to flow better.
Yes i think "Only Woman" is definitely the number one best replacement for Celia Drummond so hopefully Ketech will use her if they decide to fully replace Celia Drummond at some point. I think "Only Woman" has probably already recorded every station in the UK. So if Ketech can get hold of all of the files from Amey then they may not even have to get her to record anything else. So it would be a nice and easy switch.

That old "Boofay" lady from the Racal system who was used at FGE and FGW and SE stations in the early 2000s was another great voice. I have no idea who she is but she would be a good replacement for Celia Drummond too if she is still alive.

Pauline Cavilla who did the announcements at all the Southeastern stations throughout the 2000s would be another great replacement for Celia Drummond i think. She is still alive and working as a voiceover so she could definitely be used.

Emma Hignett would work very well too. I would be quite happy if they decided to use her as a Celia Drummond replacement.

He’s way too joe-down-the-road to voice train announcements. He sounds ridiculous.
I agree there. I am not a fan of Matt announcements. He sounds too common and amateur for announcements. Matt reminds me of Adrian Hieatt (the 1973 Stock and 1995 Stock "See It Say It Sort It" voice) and Dan Akers (the S Stock "Mind The Gap" voice) and the old SWT 458/0 man and the old HC 360 man and the old FGE 360 man. They are all very common sounding voices. Not exactly suitable for railway announcements.

No plans at Northern at least to move away from Ketech and that's coming down to us from the top guy that brought Ketech in, in the first place. As a user of both I preferred the ATOS system but hey ho!
That is certainly good to hear. I am glad that Ketech is being kept. These days the Atos Worldline system is used everywhere so it is nice to have some variety.
 

Peter0124

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Cambuslang and Rutherglen are on two different LLPA systems. There are eight different LLPA covering the Scotrail network. Cambuslang is part of Motherwell LLPA where as Rutherglen is part of North Clyde LLPA instead. For many years the North Clyde LLPA was Ketech (Alison Mckay) before switching to ASL ("Scottish Female") where as the Motherwell LLPA was always on the ASL ("Scottish Female") system.

Apparently the Ayrshire LLPA is supposed to be getting switched from Ketech (Alison Mckay) to ASL ("Scottish Female") at some point soon but it has not happened yet.
That's a pity about Ayrshire, I wish Alison Mckay continued to do them (and everywhere else in Scotland). Why exactly are they planning to switch over do you know? Alison Mckay is a much more suitable announcer than Scottish Female imo.

And what are the eight different LLPA areas in Scotland if you don't mind me asking?
 

stadler

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That's a pity about Ayrshire, I wish Alison Mckay continued to do them (and everywhere else in Scotland). Why exactly are they planning to switch over do you know? Alison Mckay is a much more suitable announcer than Scottish Female imo.

And what are the eight different LLPA areas in Scotland if you don't mind me asking?
I am not fully sure on their reasons but i would guess that it is due to cost. From what i have seen the ASL system is cheaper than the Ketech system so that is probably why. It is likely to be about saving costs. This is the same reason that so many English TOCs switched from the very high quality but expensive Amey to the lower quality but cheaper Atos Worldline to save costs.

But i agree the Ketech (Alison Mckay) system is a lot higher quality than the ASL ("Scottish Female") system. I would also have really liked to see the Ketech (Alison Mckay) system rolled out across the entire Scotrail network. She sounds very good.

I have attached two documents that show the seven LLPA areas. The first document shows the two LLPA that Dunfermline run and the second document shows the five LLPA that Paisley run. The eighth LLPA that is not listed on these files is the LLPA that includes the Atos Worldline systems at Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central High Level and Glasgow Queen Street High Level stations.
 

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  • Dunfermline stations Feb 2023.pdf
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  • Paisley Feb 2023.pdf
    70.5 KB · Views: 14

Davester50

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That's a pity about Ayrshire, I wish Alison Mckay continued to do them (and everywhere else in Scotland). Why exactly are they planning to switch over do you know? Alison Mckay is a much more suitable announcer than Scottish Female imo.

And what are the eight different LLPA areas in Scotland if you don't mind me asking?
I couldn't tell who is who, but having Googled Alison Mckay, she's light years ahead of the Waverley and Central announcement voices.
The LNER on train one still makes a meal of Kirkcaldy which is annoying, but the rest is fine.
 
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