Census 2021: any comments?

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if I've missed it, but I could not see a response to your question.

First weekend of April is Easter. I suppose the census date was planned ages ago and they anticipated that people might go away for Easter so complicating the completion. Just a guess!

That’s the most likely answer, I’d have thought.

 

[AlterEgo]

Could you not say the same about "British" though, just on a smaller level?
You talk about diverse and contrasting nations - but I'd argue that also applies between England, Wales, Scotland and NI too, and then even more so when you drill down deeper to specific places within the constituent countries (If you compare say London and the Isles of silly, or Manchester and Anglesey etc etc, they are equally as diverse and unbelievably contrasting too).

This is just arguing whether there is such a thing as polity. I don’t agree that Manchester and Anglesey are as vastly different as Norway and Greece.

 

[peters]

A person born in China is Chinese, in Nigeria they're Nigerian. Would you describe yourself as a Northern Hemisphereon? It's geographically correct. Or a Worldian? What about a Solar Systemian??

Or is it because they don't have a union that we've left and that annoys you?

Actually Eurasian is a term and it can be used to refer to someone who has a mix of European and Asian ancestry and apparently the Anglo-Indians first used the term due to feeling that neither British nor Indian probably described them.

 

[Purple Orange]

How many of those are national identities? That’s what the question asks.
Nobody is denying your right to call yourself an African or a European, but those are not national identities.

You’re getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.

Can you point to the exact wording of the question?

In fact I’ve just googled it for you:

Census 2021: Declare yourself European ✓

I have declared myself European in the census

www.stayeuropean.org

Brits urged to declare themselves 'European' in 2021 Census

More than 29,000 have said they will write their nationality as 'European'

www.plymouthherald.co.uk

It is a campaign to get people to select “Other” on the question of nationality, then type “European”. The ONS have not included “European” as a specific option. You could type anything you wish.

PS, you questioned the notion of a European identity.

A person born in China is Chinese, in Nigeria they're Nigerian. Would you describe yourself as a Northern Hemisphereon? It's geographically correct. Or a Worldian? What about a Solar Systemian??

Or is it because they don't have a union that we've left and that annoys you?

It’s nothing to do with the European Union. And what planet are you on where people from Asia or Africa are not considered as Asian or African? Seriously.

 

[peters]

This is just arguing whether there is such a thing as polity. I don’t agree that Manchester and Anglesey are as vastly different as Norway and Greece.

People from big cities feel at home in big cities. A few years ago I was with a group of both UK and international visitors in the Yorkshire Dales National Park. The person from Bristol was the one who wasn't really at home in remote places in a British national park, the person from a remote part of Bavaria was very much at home, including in a traditional English village pub!

 

[WelshBluebird]

This is just arguing whether there is such a thing as polity. I don’t agree that Manchester and Anglesey are as vastly different as Norway and Greece.

I mean, I'd very much argue that Manchester city centre and somewhere in the middle of nowhere on Anglesey are much more different than say Oslo and Athens are from each other!

But it makes literally zero difference to national identity anyway. Take the USA - that is one country that pretty much has the same differences and variance as the entirety of Europe.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Ynys Mon is quite different from Caerdydd.

What happens if many millions declare themselves 'European'?

 

[AlterEgo]

You’re getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.

Can you point to the exact wording of the question?

In fact I’ve just googled it for you:

Census 2021: Declare yourself European ✓

I have declared myself European in the census

www.stayeuropean.org

Brits urged to declare themselves 'European' in 2021 Census

More than 29,000 have said they will write their nationality as 'European'

www.plymouthherald.co.uk

It is a campaign to get people to select “Other” on the question of nationality, then type “European”. The ONS have not included “European” as a specific option. You could type anything you wish.

PS, you questioned the notion of a European identity.

I didn’t question the idea of European “identity”, but rather asked what it was and what it meant to people. That doesn’t seem terribly onerous?

I’ve said, repeatedly, it’s not a “national identity” - neither is Latino or Martian btw - and certainly not a nationality (the question specifically asks for your national identity, not a nationality anyway). I’m curious. How is European identity defined anyway? Where do you draw the borders! Who is, and is not a European? Who are your kin?

Thank you for explaining the basis for many people identifying as European on the census - which is making a political point. Great to see that European “national identity” is something people have to be encouraged to state; I mean, for most people, their national identity should be quite obvious, no? If you don’t feel British or part of any other nation, simply write “none”, which is a perfectly acceptable answer.

I feel satisfied now knowing the move to declare European national identity is akin to declaring oneself a Jedi.

If you feel European, that’s great! We are all Europeans. Including me. But it’s not a national identity.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Ynys Mon is quite different from Caerdydd.

I agree. I was arguing against the idea that just because two areas are so "vastly diverse" and are "unbelievably contrasting" that you can't have a national identify that encompasses both areas. Clearly that isn't true at all.

What happens if many millions declare themselves 'European'?

Realistically, nothing.
Dose that mean we shouldn't do it? Of course not, especially when it is such a simple thing to do on a form that every household has to complete.
I see it as similar to what the actual purpose of the census is supposed to be vs what actually happens - questions about your work and commute etc are supposed to be used to inform decisions around planning, public transport, etc etc. I'd question in reality if millions of people answering a certain way will actually result in decision changes, or if in reality such decisions are often made for other reasons ignoring the census data.

 

[Mag_seven]

What happens if many millions declare themselves 'European'?

Precisely nothing!

 

[317 forever]

Sorry if I've missed it, but I could not see a response to your question.

First weekend of April is Easter. I suppose the census date was planned ages ago and they anticipated that people might go away for Easter so complicating the completion. Just a guess!

Perhaps also significant is that Easter is noticeably earlier this year. In 2011 Easter Monday was the latest I've known, on 25th, but this year on 5th.

 

[Purple Orange]

I didn’t question the idea of European “identity”, but rather asked what it was and what it meant to people. That doesn’t seem terribly onerous?

I’ve said, repeatedly, it’s not a “national identity” - neither is Latino or Martian btw - and certainly not a nationality (the question specifically asks for your national identity, not a nationality anyway). I’m curious. How is European identity defined anyway? Where do you draw the borders! Who is, and is not a European? Who are your kin?

Thank you for explaining the basis for many people identifying as European on the census - which is making a political point. Great to see that European “national identity” is something people have to be encouraged to state; I mean, for most people, their national identity should be quite obvious, no? If you don’t feel British or part of any other nation, simply write “none”, which is a perfectly acceptable answer.

I feel satisfied now knowing the move to declare European national identity is akin to declaring oneself a Jedi.

If you feel European, that’s great! We are all Europeans. Including me. But it’s not a national identity.

Nobody apart from one campaign group are seeking to have a European ‘nationality’. Only European ‘identity’ is a valid course if we are talking about being a European, of which there are many variations. In Britain I think we overlook how intertwined we are with European culture, and therefore European identity.

Here we are conversing in English, a language that is Germanic and brought to these islands by the Anglo-Saxons. It uses the Roman alphabet, and has more words than any other language, deriving from Latin (the Romans and later Catholicism), French (from the Normans) and Scandinavians (from the Vikings).

Our food and drink is very similar, but people from Europe can tell perceptible differences that others who have not stepped foot in Europe or eaten it’s food may not be able to tell. For somebody who has never eaten European cuisine, how easy would it be to tell the difference between a Beef Stew, Irish Stew, Goulash or Beef Bourguignon? Or is it just variations of the same thing, one with lamb the other with beef? Just like we say we’re going for a curry, there is great variation whether it food that originated from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or the British tikka masala, what we are eating is fundamentally south Asian food, but within that there is great similarity and differences.

That all contributes to a European identity. To be British is to be European.

 

[RT4038]

In different parts of the world it may mean different things. In South Africa, if you are white, you would classify yourself as European. Whereas if you are geographically in Europe, the classification gets broken down to individual identities.

 

[Purple Orange]

In different parts of the world it may mean different things. In South Africa, if you are white, you would classify yourself as European. Whereas if you are geographically in Europe, the classification gets broken down to individual identities.

Yes actually you’re right there. Just as there is British Asian etc.

 

[DarloRich]

Is describing your self as European going to be the cause célèbre this time around? It was describing your religion as Jedi last time!

 

[Purple Orange]

No. Like saying you’re European or saying you’re Jedi is even comparable.

 

[DarloRich]

No. Like saying you’re European or saying you’re Jedi is even comparable.

Of course it is. It is just as silly and designed to be "clever" or trendy. It is meaningless nonsense designed to deliver a toothless political point. I think Brexit is wrong but this wont have any impact on that decision or move anyone closer to reversing it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Of course it is. It is just as silly and designed to be "clever" or trendy. It is meaningless nonsense designed to deliver a toothless political point.

The government will just ignore the putting down as "European" on the census anyway - they have an 80 seat pro Brexit majority so what do they care!

 

[DarloRich]

The government will just ignore the putting down as "European" on the census anyway - they have an 80 seat pro Brexit majority so what do they care!

They wont give a tinkers cuss and this is simply posturing on the part of those involved .

 

[Purple Orange]

Of course it is. It is just as silly and designed to be "clever" or trendy. It is meaningless nonsense designed to deliver a toothless political point. I think Brexit is wrong but this wont have any impact on that decision or move anyone closer to reversing it.

There’s nothing clever or trendy about it. It’s not even an option on the census.

 

[Gloster]

As it seems that I have opened a can of worms here, I will just say I had no knowledge of any campaign to define oneself as European. I just considered writing it in because, having spent a considerable part of my life either living around Europe or having connections with it, I find myself more in sympathy with and my life more tied to events, etc. in other European countries than to the UK.

 

[Horizon22]

Is describing your self as European going to be the cause célèbre this time around? It was describing your religion as Jedi last time!

You can feel European and British AND English. They're all essentially sub-divisons of each other. Personally I align myself more towards European than English because the latter seems to like to be hijacked by a right-wing kind of nasty Brexiteer, but would place myself most firmly as British.

 

[Ostrich]

Completed the thing online - some of the questions seem a bit ambiguous in places, like the qualifications section - but straightforward enough, I guess.
My only grouse is that the beggars have not sent me the "confirmation of submission" email I requested .....

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I do believe that I put my nationality (or it could have been ethnicity) as 'Lancastrian' on the last census. It was not questioned or followed up, nor was I fined.

 

[AlterEgo]

You can feel European and British AND English. They're all essentially sub-divisons of each other. Personally I align myself more towards European than English because the latter seems to like to be hijacked by a right-wing kind of nasty Brexiteer, but would place myself most firmly as British.

You should see the types of people that keep trying to hijack Irish identity. It doesn’t stop most Irish people from declaring they’re Irish and being quite comfortable with it.

Abdicating Englishness only serves to make it a more fringe identity. I don’t understand the problem people have with it, if I’m honest; it’s as if the cultural cringe around Englishness is now trendy.

 

[Purple Orange]

You should see the types of people that keep trying to hijack Irish identity. It doesn’t stop most Irish people from declaring they’re Irish and being quite comfortable with it.

Abdicating Englishness only serves to make it a more fringe identity. I don’t understand the problem people have with it, if I’m honest; it’s as if the cultural cringe around Englishness is now trendy.

Nobody should feel uncomfortable about feeling English and thugs & skinheads aren’t my first thought when I think of England and the English. There is an ‘uncomfortableness’ for some people, but that is true about a British identity for others and a European identity for other people again. I think it’s born out of England and the English losing sight of their place in the world. Once a world superpower but no more.

 

[MotCO]

Precisely nothing!

But assumptions may be made that you are more likely to move back to another European country than someone who describes themselves as British or English. Therefore, the size and nature of public services for older people may be under-estimated, or indeed the number of school places (if you have children) may also be under-estimated.

 

[swt_passenger]

Have previous censuses always asked for students to be recorded both home and away? I was never a student and hadn’t actually noticed before...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Have previous censuses always asked for students to be recorded both home and away? I was never a student and hadn’t actually noticed before...

I think it's where you are residing on the night of the census that counts.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think it's where you are residing on the night of the census that counts.

Found it, they say:
”Why do I need to be on a form for my term-time address and home address?
We need to count the population in every area, so that local authorities can plan services for the number of people there, both in and out of term time. Our processes take into account that students may be counted in both locations.”