Chancellor to reveal cap on rail fare increases

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by WestCoast, 26 Nov 2011.

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  1. WestCoast

    WestCoast Established Member

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    Some welcome news for passengers....

    Story from BBC NEWS: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15907255
     
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  3. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    I note ATOC are hailing it as a positive move for passengers. Remind me, what was it they said when the original higher fare rise limits were announced? Something about needing the extra money to make improvements for passengers wasn't it?;)
     
  4. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

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    It's a positive move, ideally I'd like to see a freeze but that would be living in fantasy land. I wonder why they use July's figure though? Is it a need to push it through Parliament?

    Not much to say except I'll believe it when I see it and I'm quite interested to see if they'll be any sly changes to protected tickets and the rise of unprotected ones
     
  5. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    I wonder how much this is going to delay NFM11? Might mean more opportunity to buy advance tickets at the old prices if they can't get it live by Dec 5th?
     
  6. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Advance fares are unregulated so in theory shouldn't be affected by this ruling, however if NFM11 is delayed as a result of this very late intervention, I can see revisions to Advance fares being held up at the same time.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    They will now be getting some of this 'extra money' from the Government so it makes no difference to them.
     
  7. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Ah.... so the grant is going up to cover the 2% difference then?
     
  8. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Looks like it.
     
    Last edited: 26 Nov 2011
  9. Gerald Fiennes

    Gerald Fiennes Member

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    Under the privatisation contracts, all of the extra money from regulated fares increases above RPI + 1 is handed by the TOCs over to the Government. So this move won't impact the DfT budget; however, next year's rise if it stays at RPI + 3 will generate some extra cash for DfT.
     
  10. amcluesent

    amcluesent Member

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    We need RPI minus 1% to encourage efficiency on the railways. And controls of the hiking of parking charges to the same figure as regulated fares.
     
  11. Rover

    Rover Member

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    It's going to cost the taxpayer £300m, whether that's the amount the government will not now be getting or if that's what they have to compensate the TOCs for for lost revenue I'm not sure.
     
  12. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    So only regulated fare rises are capped. Hmm, I wonder what will happen to unregulated fares. Money doesn't just fall out of the sky.
     
  13. furryfeet

    furryfeet Member

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    So does this mean that everywhere else the RPI + 3% i.e. 8.2% average still applies ?
    Also, if it is tube and bus fares only, then rail season tickets within london can go up by 8.2% as well. It this interpretation correct ?
     
  14. CompactDstrxion

    CompactDstrxion Member

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    No, tube and bus in London will be additional to the National Rail cap.
     
  15. shinkansen1966

    shinkansen1966 Established Member

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    How will that work ? The fares for 2012 have already been announced by TfL.

    Confused of North London
     
  16. LE Greys

    LE Greys Established Member

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    About time off-peak fares were regulated as well. I don't have figures, but I think that SVR/OPR has been going up at about 10% a year for quite some time.
     
  17. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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    On the contrary, off-peak returns (i.e. the equivalent of the former Saver) are regulated everywhere. It is only in the defined commuter zones around London, Cardiff and Edinburgh and in the PTE areas that anytime day returns and singles are regulated. Although seasons are also regulated everywhere, which I suppose comes under peak fares too.

    Do you have an example of a particular fare that has been going up by more than regulation - there is probably some explanation for it, but it might be interesting to look into.
     
  18. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Does anyone else think the BBC headline (and therefore the thread title) is rather odd?

    Shouldn't it have been "Chancellor to alter cap on rail fare increases"?

    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---

    What it has meant in previous fares rounds is that individual TfL fares (Tube/DLR/Bus/LO etc) have been subject to the percentage rise set by the Mayor, but all the travelcards have been subject to the DfT's rise, because they are a joint NR/TfL product.

    Then you'd normally get the various daily PAYG caps following the travelcards - now that they are equal. (This wasn't always the case though, prior to full PAYG roll out on NR there was generally a slight difference).
     
    Last edited: 28 Nov 2011
  19. Sleepy

    Sleepy Member

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    ;) So will TOC pricing managers be burning the midnight oil to change NFM 11 ?
     
  20. michael769

    michael769 Established Member

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    I'd be surprised if the ToCs had not had an idea this might happen and didn't have a contingency plan ready.
     
  21. Sleepy

    Sleepy Member

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    Read somewhere ATOC have recently held meeting to discuss this but given NFM 11 should be released next Monday time is very limited !
     
  22. OwlMan

    OwlMan Established Member

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    No, as the reduction only applies to regulated fares all they need is to reduce the new fare already calculated by 2% of the old fare. Fairly simple using a computer. Any anomalies that might occur can be sorted out at the next fares change.
    Unregulated fares do not need to be adjusted now, but might be adjusted in the next fares round.
     
  23. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The Tocs' franchise agreements state that for the 2012 fares round they will be limited to RPI + 1%[1]. The extra 2% was therefore going to go straight to the Government.

    [1] In previous years Southeastern's was RPI + 3%, however this was already planned to go down to RPI + 1% in 2012
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Most SVR fares are regulated.

    FWIW I have also heard from a senior fares manager at a popular Toc who has advised his department is very busy with "possible" news of the regulatory change (this message was rec'd by my before today's announcement).
     
  24. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    NFM11 will now not be published until the 19th December instead of the 5th.
     
  25. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Does this mean the new fares will not go "live" on TIS on 5th December either?
     
  26. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    I seem to recall that during the last round of price rises, fares in West Yorks and the South Eastern division were supposed to rise at a higher rate than elsewhere. I wonder if this has been quashed by the fares cap ?
     
  27. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    The SE extra 2% was supposed to have been only for the first 5 years of the new franchise, ie 2006-11, so should no longer happen. Having said that I once read that it was actually delayed until 2007-12, so it might have one year left.

    No idea about West Yorks I'm afraid.
     
  28. LE Greys

    LE Greys Established Member

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    My mistake.
     
  29. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Ah thanks, I wasn't sure how long it had been in place.
     
  30. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    Expect not, delay is because of the need for 'major last minute revisions' so it seems unlikely they will get them on TIS in time.
     
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