Changes to Annual Gold Card benefits from 2nd January 2015

[Goldfish62]

Really disappointed about the loss of the FC supplement, and also that once my son is 5 it will no longer be £2 flat rate.

I assume the SWT £5 weekend supplement (when the guard bothers to make an appearance ) will remain as this is advertised as being valid with any type of ticket. It would make sense as normal; 1st Class usage on SWT at weekends is practically zilch.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I assume the SWT £5 weekend supplement (when the guard bothers to make an appearance ) will remain as this is advertised as being valid with any type of ticket. It would make sense as normal; 1st Class usage on SWT at weekends is practically zilch.

It's barely worth it on 450s. On 444s, on the other hand, it is very nice indeed.

It's a shame LM haven't gone for TPE style 2+1 first class on the 350/3s. That would be worth paying for.

Neil

 

[infobleep]

Actually the 450s have plug sockets only in first class, bar one train I was once on which also had it in standard class.

Where as the 444s have plug sockets in one standard class carriage per 5, as well as first class. Thus if I was going to use it, I'd use it more on a 450 and not a 444.

 

[bb21]

Actually the 450s have plug sockets only in first class, bar one train I was once on which also had it in standard class.

That would be on the HC 450/5s. The plug sockets are where the original First Class seats were.

 

[Goldfish62]

That would be on the HC 450/5s. The plug sockets are where the original First Class seats were.

And where the First Class seats have been reinstalled. They were all converted back last year.

 

[infobleep]

And where the First Class seats have been reinstalled. They were all converted back last year.

Well like I said, I only saw it once and now it will be no more.

I might travel first class on intercity journeys but I wouldn't on journeys in the south east.

 

[yorkie]

Different validity between a Gold Card and Network Railcard? Seems unnecessarily complicated/confusing to me.

That's in line with ATOC policies, which appear to be to make things complex, and the DfT are happy for that to be the case.

*sighs* not even for journeys like Euston to MK? :eek:

I'm not convinced NRCoC Condition 10 can be swept aside so easily. Anyone got plenty of cash and a good solicitor to test this?

How, exactly? It is a regulated ticket. They can't just increase the price fivefold.

They'll find a way. They'll claim the price is "too cheap" and was "never intended" to be valid. And Passenger Focus will back them all the way, in their usual anti-passenger style.

Hmph. I just knew the world ‘simplified’ would appear somewhere regarding the changes….

Indeed. It fits the ATOC definition of "simple"!

What will this mean for tickets routed any permitted where one route is a non-Gold card accepting TOC and another is?

I know some will disagree, but it's my opinion that this Railcard does not over-rule NRCoC Condition 10.

We could maybe start to see the beginnings of a national railcard.

No chance. There will always be some TOCs who are against it.

The likes of Virgin & East Coast hate walk-up fares as it spoils their yield management. In their ideal world, everyone would have Advance fares, apart from people who need to turn up & go, and those people are the sort who they want to charge a very high premium for, not give them discounts.

It's a shame because the Railcard system is a complete mess, and it could be resolved by having one product with common T&Cs, the price of the product could vary depending on eligibility. Won't happen though!

 

[Deerfold]

The likes of Virgin & East Coast hate walk-up fares as it spoils their yield management. In their ideal world, everyone would have Advance fares, apart from people who need to turn up & go, and those people are the sort who they want to charge a very high premium for, not give them discounts.

So why do East Coast sell half price off-peak singles if bought the day before?
And why do Virgin do SVH tickets?

Surely neither of these are great for yield management and both could be withdrawn with no notice.

 

[yorkie]

So why do East Coast sell half price off-peak singles if bought the day before?

I'm not sure exactly, as it's the one thing they've done which goes against the concept of trying to make people buy Advance fares at all costs.

That said, it's not exactly making travel that cheap is it? There arguably shouldn't really be any Advance fares at a cost higher than that. The Super Off Peak Singles for the journeys in question are mega-expensive.

And why do Virgin do SVH tickets?

Surely neither of these are great for yield management and both could be withdrawn with no notice.

They only sell these fares when bought as part of a return journey, so you either pay the Off Peak Return price anyway, or you do use an Advance in the other direction.

Here's one theory: they allow people who can commit to a specific outward service, to have flexibility on their return journey. It may be the case that such people would be lost to rail if there was no affordable product available to them.

I still don't think that VT or EC would like the idea of an extended Gold Card, or National Railcard, which simply gives frequent passengers a third off walk-up fares, because it would undermine their yield management principles.

 

[bb21]

And where the First Class seats have been reinstalled. They were all converted back last year.

Are they all converted back now? I must be a bit behind with these matters.

I thought some remained.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So why do East Coast sell half price off-peak singles if bought the day before?
And why do Virgin do SVH tickets?

Surely neither of these are great for yield management and both could be withdrawn with no notice.

Those tickets are designed to be used in conjunction with Advance tickets in the opposite direction. This is to try and still encourage people to use Advance tickets in one direction, despite no availability in the other direction, rather than buying the walk-up return ticket.

Given that the off-peak single is usually £1 cheaper than the return, if they didn't offer this they'd have more people either buying the return (which gives them less revenue) or lose their custom entirely.

 

[Deerfold]

Those tickets are designed to be used in conjunction with Advance tickets in the opposite direction.

Perhaps they are (though there's no compulsion to with the EC ones...), but it doesn't do any good for yield management as the companies cannot control which trains people will catch which was my argument..

 

[infobleep]

Perhaps they are (though there's no compulsion to with the EC ones...), but it doesn't do any good for yield management as the companies cannot control which trains people will catch which was my argument..

It may do because on the outward journey the people are using an advance. I guess it depends on how much they make on the outward journey vers any loses on the return part.

 

[Deerfold]

It may do because on the outward journey the people are using an advance. I guess it depends on how much they make on the outward journey vers any loses on the return part.

On the EC one you don't have to. I know people who've used the coach in the other direction where they've needed to go quicker in one direction. It also means that in one direction you don't know which train people are on, so may sell cheap advances for a train that actually turns out to be busy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On the EC one you don't have to. I know people who've used the coach in the other direction where they've needed to go quicker in one direction. It also means that in one direction you don't know which train people are on, so may sell cheap advances for a train that actually turns out to be busy.

Loadings are very predictable, though, other than when there are big special events. And use of a calendar of known big special events can make those predictable as well.

Neil

 

[Goldfish62]

Are they all converted back now? I must be a bit behind with these matters.

I thought some remained.

All done a fair while back.

 

[talldave]

If you purchase an annual season ticket online, is it possible to satisfy the Annual Gold Card requirement that "the issuing station is in the Annual Gold Card area"?

 

[jon0844]

Come January and my renewal time, what will be the cheapest way to get another Gold Card?

Sadly I never got to travel once on my current Isle of Wight season ticket, but now I'm wondering what other two stations I can never travel between...!

 

[Hadders]

Lichfield City-Lichfield Trent Valley at £108 for an annual season (2014 prices) is the cheapest, I believe.

 

[talldave]

That's the one I'm looking at, but as per my question above I'm not sure if buying online satisfies the requirements?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Seasons purchased through Business Travel Offices, Telesales and Internet sites CAN be issued on Gold Card stock providing the flow qualifies for same, regardless of the physical location of the issuing office.

 

[jon0844]

Lichfield City-Lichfield Trent Valley at £108 for an annual season (2014 prices) is the cheapest, I believe.

I assume you can't buy this at 2014 prices because the first day of the new Gold Card area will be the same day the prices go up?

Of course, on such a cheap ticket the increase shouldn't be that significant...?

I wonder what would happen if you bought the day before, then got a replacement ticket soon after - would it then be issued on Gold Card ticket stock?

 

[Be3G]

I assume you can't buy this at 2014 prices because the first day of the new Gold Card area will be the same day the prices go up?

You're in luck:

Customers with paper tickets bought online or at stations should return to the place it was issued or the closest staffed station within the validity area, and take along –along your valid season ticket and photocard ID card from 2 January.

 

[jon0844]

Hmm. So if I bought from Hatfield station, and then went back for a replacement after the new area is added - I wonder how much fun I'd have convincing them to use Gold Card stock!

I think I'll just see what the difference in price is first. If it's just a few quid, it probably isn't worth the bother.

Mind you, I got my current one in advance and had it replaced before it even started!

 

[Hadders]

I wonder if any friendly ticketing clerks would print a LTV-LIC annual purchased on 31 December or 1 January on Gold Card stock, avoiding the need to return the following day for a re-print.

 

[talldave]

As i read it on NR the terms change for all gold cards regardless of date of issue?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Seasons purchased through Business Travel Offices, Telesales and Internet sites CAN be issued on Gold Card stock providing the flow qualifies for same, regardless of the physical location of the issuing office.

So if I buy from Southern's website WILL it be issued as a Gold Card?

It's a shame that the terms on the NR website don't appear to mention online purchases.

 

[Hadders]

That's right but the point is I could buy a LTV-LIC annual on 1 January before the price increase, which would cost £108. This would be issued on 'normal' stock because at the time of issue both stations are outside the Gold Card area.

But on 2 January I could go back to the station and get the ticket re-issued and it would be printed on Gold Card stock.

Doing such a thing would be a bit of a faff for both me and the ticket clerk. Far better if a helpful clerk would issue it on Gold Card stock in the first place

 

[talldave]

Got it!!

 

[Kite159]

How much will LTV-LIC go up after the 1st January (if it's been announced)?

 

[CyrusWuff]

How much will LTV-LIC go up after the 1st January (if it's been announced)?

New fares should be available in retail systems from Saturday 6th December, that being 4 weeks before the Fares Change Date of Friday 2nd January.

However, with the "Autumn" statement due on Wednesday 3rd December, it's possible that a change from the previously announced 2.5% increase to regulated fares (with zero flex) could still be made, which would delay the appearance of the "correct" fares.