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Changes to Annual Gold Card benefits from 2nd January 2015

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paul1609

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That's right but the point is I could buy a LTV-LIC annual on 1 January before the price increase, which would cost £108. This would be issued on 'normal' stock because at the time of issue both stations are outside the Gold Card area.

But on 2 January I could go back to the station and get the ticket re-issued and it would be printed on Gold Card stock.

Doing such a thing would be a bit of a faff for both me and the ticket clerk. Far better if a helpful clerk would issue it on Gold Card stock in the first place ;)

The obvious confusion on presenting the keyGold Card record card anywhere outside Southern is probably worth the extra £52 for the Pevensey Season ticket anyway :)
 
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infobleep

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My understanding was they could only gonna by a maximum percentage about the average but I forget all the figures.
 

greatkingrat

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I don't believe the 7DS fare from Lichfield City - Lichfield Trent Valley is regulated, therefore they can increase it to whatever they like.
 

Kite159

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I don't know how accurate this site (http://trainscanbecheaper.info/FareIncrease.aspx) is, but it says a Lichfield City to Lichfield Trent Valley season is going up by a whopping 33%! I make that £144 for an annual.

Only 33%?, I was expecting a larger rise

I would be interested to know how many season tickets were previously sold between the 2 stations (which I'm guessing not a lot).

When is the last day you can purchase an Lichfield Season before the fare increase (1st January?)
 

infobleep

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Did you look at the link I provided that states that that will not be happening for the 2015 changes?
No I didn't because I'm viewing this on my mobile and decided I didn't wish to download the PDF.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Only 33%?, I was expecting a larger rise

I would be interested to know how many season tickets were previously sold between the 2 stations (which I'm guessing not a lot).

When is the last day you can purchase an Lichfield Season before the fare increase (1st January?)
I believe it's the 1st January.
 

jon0844

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Can someone confirm whether this season ticket will definitely be going up 30-40% in January or not, based on actual facts?

I need to get my new ticket on Jan 9th so will probably just pay the 2015 rate as I can't be bothered to go through the hassle of changing my ticket and arguing that it should be issued on Gold Card stock etc.

But of course if the increase is massive then I might have to.
 

Paul Kelly

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Are all "any permitted" seasons not regulated?
Regulated in that they must continue to be made available for sale, i.e. protected, but not necessarily subject to the fares basket rules:
SRA Fares Review Conclusions said:
Weekly seasons outside urban areas will therefore continue to be regulated. However, they will be regulated through a more flexible ‘fares basket’ mechanism, as described in section 6.
Section 6.3 said:
  • All regulated fares will be regulated by means of a fares basket.
  • Each fares basket will be simplified, and will contain only those fares which together account for around 95% of revenue from all regulated fares.
I think it's highly likely that the Lichfield season is not one of London Midland's high-revenue generating fares, and therefore falls outside the fares basket mechanism, so I agree with greatkingrat.

Funnily enough that document also says
Section 6.4 said:
Fares on less popular flows would in effect remain regulated through (i) an SRA requirement for that fare to continue to exist and (ii) by the limiting effect of fares from adjacent stations being regulated. For example, if the fare on a very popular flow from A to C is regulated, and a similar fare is required to exist on a very small-revenue flow from B to C, the fare from B to C cannot logically exceed that from A to C. The fares included in a basket will need to provide a good geographical spread and care will need to be taken to ensure this when the baskets are created. However, in some cases, this simplification could reduce the number of separate fares within an operator’s fares basket from over 20,000 to just 1,000. The SRA believes that this could significantly reduce the burden of regulation, allowing much simpler processes and systems to be used to maintain and manage fares regulation.
I take the bit I've highlighted to mean that probably only 5% of protected fares are actually in a fares basket and regulated.
 

Paul Kelly

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Do they ever publish what is and isn't in the fares basket?

If it has been published, I am not aware of it; I think it is probably deemed confidential commercial information. I suppose it may be possible to find out the constitution of the 2003 fares baskets if it was needed for research, but since many of the TOCs have changed since then it would be quite inaccurate.

Footnote 33 on page 104 of the 2012 DfT consultation on Fares and Ticketing says that the fares baskets are re-weighted from time to time, most recently (at the time of that document at least) in 2010.
 

Starmill

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I doubt new ticket routeings would be created - the situation already exists with e.g. CrossCountry and GroupSave. Yes, it will lead to a lot of confusion from both staff and passengers!

And a lot of debate on here about how within their rights VT are to reject a London - Stafford ticket routed Any Permitted and not bearing any reference to 'SOME OTHER TOC ONLY' or 'NOT VIRGIN TRAINS' ?
 

greatkingrat

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Do confirmed to be £133 from 2nd January.

Has anybody checked for any cheap seasons in the Norfolk area?

The cheapest GA season is Brundall - Brundall Gardens at a relatively pricey £240. Lichfield is still the cheapest even after the rise.
 

Skimpot flyer

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I am starting a new job in mid-January, in Stratford, London, a location whose station is in Travelcard Zone 3.
I will be travelling to and from Welwyn Garden City, at times of day for which an Off-Peak Travelcard would be valid. i.e. outside of both the morning and evening 'barred' times
I have been looking at all the fare options, to see which one makes the most sense financially, and until I read this thread, thought that buying an All-Zones Travelcard each day, using my Network Card, would be best for me.

My logic was that it would cost me 5 x £13 (£65) per week, and give me the flexibility I need, to travel via Liverpool Street / Kings Cross, which the Zones 2-6 Annual Season (for travel via Highbury & Islington and thence by London Overground), priced at £2840, does not allow.
However...
Am I really understanding this correctly? There really is no minimum fare for discounted tickets purchased with a Gold Card ???

If so, are there any flaws in my alternate plan....

1. Purchase a LIC-LTV Annual Season priced at £133
2. Use the Gold Card to buy a WGC - London Terminals off-peak day return every day, priced at £7.90
3. Load the Gold Card discount onto an Oyster Card, bringing the off-peak fare from Kings Cross to Stratford down to £1.80 in each direction.

Assuming the above is a correct understanding of how a Lichfield City - Lichfield Trent Valley annual season can be used to acquire a Gold Card, am I right in believing this would be a good way to bring my annual costs down, so that I would end up paying no more than^ :

£133 plus (£7.90+£1.80+£1.80) x 5 days x 46* weeks

= £133 + £2645

= £2778

= £60.40 per week

8-)

That would give me the flexibility I need, to travel via Kings Cross, without paying out the (pre-increase) £992 extra for an annual season ticket with 'via Zone 1' validity !!!

*based on 6 weeks annual leave
^less any days not worked, such as Bank Holidays
 
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jon0844

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Could you save more money getting a ticket to Highbury & Islington and then using LO to Stratford, thus avoiding zone 1?
 

Skimpot flyer

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Thanks for the suggestion, jon. But I need the option to go via Liverpool St / Kings Cross, because sometimes the timings work out better, to connect with a semi-fast train from KX, rather than be stuck on an ex-Moorgate stopping service.

so, to confirm... there is NO minimum fare when using a Gold Card after 10am ? (unlike the Network Railcard)
 
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MikeWh

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Thanks for the suggestion, jon. But I need the option to go via Liverpool St / Kings Cross, because sometimes the timings work out better, to connect with a semi-fast train from KX, rather than be stuck on an ex-Moorgate stopping service.

so, to confirm... there is NO minimum fare when using a Gold Card after 10am ? (unlike the Network Railcard)

Yes, there is no minimum fare with the gold card. Also, do the semi-fast trains call at Finsbury Park? If yes you can change at Highbury and Finsbury Park with the Victoria line as an option between the two.
 

IanD

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Thanks for the suggestion, jon. But I need the option to go via Liverpool St / Kings Cross, because sometimes the timings work out better, to connect with a semi-fast train from KX, rather than be stuck on an ex-Moorgate stopping service.

so, to confirm... there is NO minimum fare when using a Gold Card after 10am ? (unlike the Network Railcard)

Currently it's 10am, according to the OP it will be after 930 from 02/01.
 

Skimpot flyer

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Inspired by the helpful replies, I've realised the best way to do it, is to buy a daily off-peak return with Gold Card discount, to Finsbury Park, as the Oyster fares from there to Stratford are the same prices as from Highbury to Stratford!!!
That saves 50p per day (pre-inrease fares) versus the London Terminals ticket I originally intended to buy. 50p doesn't sound much, but still an additonal saving of over £100 per annum. :)
 

jon0844

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I think by September you'll have Oyster to WGC and then it will get even easier, depending on how the fares are priced and whether they are added to zones or not.

Cheshunt to Stratford is really cheap as it's zone 8 but Broxbourne is a special zone and priced by AGA and much more expensive. I don't know what Hatfield or WGC will be.
 
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Kite159

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Where is currently the best place to best a Lichfield season (in terms of added 'freebies' (is nectar points, x free weekend travel tickets)?
 
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