Changes to subsidised services in Lancashire

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by randyrippley, 15 Mar 2016.

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  1. randyrippley

    randyrippley Member

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    Last edited: 15 Mar 2016
  2. overthewater

    overthewater Established Member

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    Looks like alot of stuff after 8pm is gone, so its not commercially viable after all. Its mainly around shift changes where the buses stay on, its also where said contracts make money to help pay for the under used journeys
     
  3. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Question is how will they fare as commercial routes? High Peak Buses attempted to run some routes in Cheshire commercially using less buses and hiking the fares and they were a complete failure. However, GHA Coaches' attempts to do the same thing in Cheshire have been more successful.

    Note Catch22 Buses who were threatened with a 7 year operating ban are operating some of the commercial services, possibly an attempt to not get banned?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I expect some 'saved' routes will see later starts, earlier finishes and gaps in timetables to allow for a bus+driver doing a school/college contract or taking a break without another driver being used to provide cover.
     
  4. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I do find that rather suspicious myself, and always did. Funny how Arriva have decided a load of Sunday daytime services were commercially viable once MK Council said they weren't paying for them any more.

    You can't really blame bus companies for this, after all they are in it for profit, but it is a serious flaw in the structure of the industry.
     
  5. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Looks to be the nail in the coffin for the "Cow Ark Flyer"....aka service 10 (Clitheroe - Hodder Valley circular service).
     
  6. randyrippley

    randyrippley Member

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    a car hardly fits down that road past Cow Ark, let alone a bus.
     
  7. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    Well, I'd reign in some of your suspicion. You have some journeys that are clearly not sustainable but bus companies will register them commercially in order to either ensure other commercial journeys aren't undermined (a laudable holistic vision) or they may decide that a drivers going to be paid for anyway (minimum shift length) so may as well run on a marginal cost basis. Also, especially with Sundays, what may have been non-commercial a few years may now wipe its face given the growth in Sunday shopping.

    For example, when Somerset CC cut their subsidies for Sunday and evening services a few years ago, First continued on a "use it or lose it" basis. Some Sunday services around Wells and Taunton continue to this day. Others like Wells to Yeovil just didn't pay and then went. Same with some of the evening stuff though they will continue to 2000/2100hrs.

    Arguably, you shouldn't marginally cost services but sometimes operators will do so as part of a holistic approach
     
  8. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    I agree very much with all that. I'd also introduce another possible reason why an operator might at least try to make some of those journeys profitable, in the short term at least. Most operators will want to be favourably viewed by the councils in their area so that when, for instance, a tender is being made for a subsidised service and two competing firms make much the same bid, kudos might be given to the company which is taking the financial risk and keeping a service going which otherwise would have disappeared.
     
  9. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Are you aware that the number 10 bus actually makes that journey and the bus is certainly wider than our Range Rover.
     
  10. randyrippley

    randyrippley Member

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    I know that road well, but didn't realise it ran that way. I assumed it was out-and-back through Newton and Slaidburn.
     
  11. mbonwick

    mbonwick Established Member

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    A lot of the tendered work that will be commercial is on a "use it or lose it" basis as well - the operators are trying to help LCC out, but there's only so much you can do if people don't use the services.
     
  12. robertclark125

    robertclark125 Established Member

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    Basically, the ball is now in the court of the people of Lancashire, to use these services. Ironically, the public will be very well aware of them now, given the free publicity given to them by the media reports, so perhaps folk will be tempted to try them.
     
  13. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    The number 10 circular is quite a scenic route, as follows:-
    Clitheroe
    Bashall Eaves
    Cow Ark
    Whitewell
    Dunsop Bridge
    Slaidburn
    Newton
    Waddington
    Clitheroe
     
  14. randyrippley

    randyrippley Member

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    the real pain as I see it is that the Sunday and evening "touristy" services have gone: no more bus rides out to Kirkby Lonsdale or Silverdale or Glasson for a beer and walks, no more evenings in the fleshpots of Blackpool (as the evening 42 has gone}.
    I'm sure those "scenic" routes just needed better advertising as "country pubs and walks" routes to keep the services going in the summer, at least.
     
    Last edited: 16 Mar 2016
  15. winston270twm

    winston270twm Established Member

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    Two interesting new registrations as a result of LCC cuts I assume:


    PC0001777/146 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Clitheroe Interchange
    Finish Point: Skipton Bus Station
    Via: Gisburn
    Service Number: 180
    Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Sunday


    PC0001777/147 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
    Finish Point: Clitheroe Interchange
    Via: Whalley
    Service Number: 280
    Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Sunday
     
  16. Stan Drews

    Stan Drews Member

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    Rotala have decided to run it commercially.
     
  17. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Last edited: 20 Mar 2016
  18. robertclark125

    robertclark125 Established Member

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    Will they give change on these services, or is it exact fare only?
     
  19. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    I don't know. I suspect they will be higher than the current highest single fare of £1.80 listed on their website though.
     
  20. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Number of new registrations have appeared today:

    PC0001439/167 - HOLMESWOOD COACHES LTD, SANDY WAY, HOLMESWOOD, ORMSKIRK, L40 1UB
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Burnley Bus Station
    Finish Point: Burnley Bus Station
    Via:
    Service Number: 14
    Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001439/168 - HOLMESWOOD COACHES LTD, SANDY WAY, HOLMESWOOD, ORMSKIRK, L40 1UB
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Nelson Interchange
    Finish Point: Burnley Bus Station
    Via:
    Service Number: 65
    Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001439/169 - HOLMESWOOD COACHES LTD, SANDY WAY, HOLMESWOOD, ORMSKIRK, L40 1UB
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Burnley Bus Station
    Finish Point: Colne Library
    Via:
    Service Number: 95
    Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001439/170 - HOLMESWOOD COACHES LTD, SANDY WAY, HOLMESWOOD, ORMSKIRK, L40 1UB
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Chorley Interchange
    Finish Point: Lord Street, Southport (Morrisons)
    Via:
    Service Number: 347
    Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC1067065/28 - ROJAY SERVICES LTD T/A WIGAN COACHWAYS, UNIT 2C, CRICKET STREET BUSINESS CENTRE,, CRICKET, WIGAN, WN6 7TP
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Chorley Bus Station
    Finish Point: Wigan Bus Station
    Via: Coppull Old Parish, Standish, Roby Mill, Orrell
    Service Number: 351
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 05-APR-2016
    Other Details: Tuesdays & Fridays 3 journeys one direction and 2 journeys the other.
     
  21. winston270twm

    winston270twm Established Member

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    New Preston Bus registrations listed on VOSA today:

    PC0001777/148 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
    Finish Point: Penwortham
    Via: Broadgate
    Service Number: 13
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001777/149 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Ormskirk Bus Station
    Finish Point: Ormskirk Bus Station
    Via: Scott Estate
    Service Number: 6
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001777/150 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
    Finish Point: Myerscough (Agricultural College)
    Via: Elswick, Great Ecclestone
    Service Number: 80
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001777/151 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Chorley Interchange
    Finish Point: Leyland Tesco
    Via: Clayton Brook
    Service Number: 114
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001777/152 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
    Finish Point: Bamber Bridge (Sainsburys)
    Via: French Wood
    Service Number: 112
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001777/153 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
    Finish Point: Poulton
    Via: Kirkham
    Service Number: 75
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001777/154 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Ormskirk Bus Station
    Finish Point: Ormskirk Bus Station
    Via: Town Green
    Service Number: 5
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001777/155 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Fleetwood (Albert Square)
    Finish Point: Blackpool
    Via: Thornton & Poulton
    Service Number: 74
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday

    PC0001777/156 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
    Registration Accepted by SN
    Starting Point: Appley Bridge
    Finish Point: Burnscough Bridge
    Via: Skelmersdale
    Service Number: 3A
    Service Type: Normal Stopping
    Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
    Other Details: Monday to Saturday
     
  22. KendalKing

    KendalKing Established Member

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    looks like Rotala owned Preston Bus is expanding, somewhat.
     
  23. robertclark125

    robertclark125 Established Member

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    According to someone on another forum, the Ormskirk locals are actually being worked from Atherton depot, which is obviously Diamond Bus North West. Crew training is seemingly taking place using staff from that depot.
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Interesting that they consider the Aughton circular as possibly commercial. Will be interesting to see how it does (my Dad likes that one with his free pass, and it does keep a car off the road as without it he'd drive)

    Edit: ah I see it's still tendered.
     
    Last edited: 1 Apr 2016
  25. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Not impressed with Transdev's website. There's no mention that the 180/280/X80 would no longer be operated by them even though their last journeys were yesterday.
    Preston Bus start tomorrow, so I hope no one tried to catch one today.
     
  26. lejog

    lejog Established Member

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    .... or perhaps not so viable. The old 465 service between Todmorden and Bacup, which was replaced by extending the 482 to Todmorden as the Lancashire subsidy ended is now being reduced from an hourly service to a once per day school service from 29th Jan. Apart from this any journeys between Rossendale and Yorkshire will now involve going through either Rochdale or Burnley.

    http://www.rossobus.com/article.shtml?articleid=6518

     
  27. Baxenden Bank

    Baxenden Bank Established Member

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    A nice, comprehensive, explanation by Rosso of the situation behind the withdrawal. One has to ask why they thought it would be commercial though, if it has been subsidised every day since de-regulation and bus use generally is in decline.

    I suspect there will be many similar withdrawals in due course as the rushed decision to take things on commercially faces harsh commercial reality.

    On a more positive note, the fewer links between Lancashire and Yorkshire the better, keeps the tykes where they belong ;) Should it be branded Lexit or Yexit?
     
  28. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    I think you'll find that Yorkshire people like to travel if only to spread the good word and the readings of St. Geoffrey.

    We regard the Third World (e.g. Lancashire) as a interesting place and one that might seem quite nice when it's finished. ;)
     
  29. martinsh

    martinsh Established Member

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    Anyone up for a "last day" grice of this route ?
     
  30. Baxenden Bank

    Baxenden Bank Established Member

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    Surely you missed out a word?

    ...Yorkshire people like to travel FREE if only to spread....
     
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