Chaos at Exeter Central

[LMS 4F]

on Saturday 14th whilst on a weekend break with my wife, I went from Exmouth to Exeter Central on a very nicely refurbished 150/2.
It was busy but on arrival at Central it was soon apparent the all was not well. We went up the stairs to the passage towards the barriers and were joined by people who had come up from Plaform 3, we got off on Platform 2.
The barriers are inadequate to cope with those sort of numbers, especially as a lot of the people were obviously not regular train users and were not sure how to use their ticket to open the barrier. There were I believe 4 gates with one member of staff trying to cope with a large press of people.
On our return the situation was even worse. There was an even larger number of people trying to get off the station whilst at the same time an ever increasing number was trying to use the same gates to gain access for their train home or wherever. The one unfortunate member of staff was struggling again to cope and eventually switched one gate to admit us onto the station.
I fully understand that GWR want to protect their revenue stream but if someone goes down on the floor in these crushes, particularly those on staircases a tragedy may well unfold.
I have contacted GWR with my views but would advise anyone using Exeter Central this weekend, when no doubt it will be as busy if not more so to take particular care and be aware of what is likely to be waiting for them.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

To be honest four gates doesn't sound unreasonable for a station handling circa 2.5m passengers per annum. Cardiff Central handles five times that number and has (from memory) six gates at the front of the station, the entrance and exit that the vast majority of passengers use. Sure, they can be a pain at times but people get used to them and learn to queue.

 

[alxndr]

I've used Exeter Central many times and never encountered this, maybe a short queue at most but nothing striking or memorable. It may just be a seasonal problem and more would be overkill at other times of the year.

There's also an exit at the other end of the platforms if you really want to avoid it.

 

[LMS 4F]

I was not familiar with the Station only ever having passed through on several occasions. I have no doubt it is a seasonal problem but I have never seen crowds in such a confined space trying to use barriers such as I saw on Saturday. I wouldn't expect long term changes but some action in the way of signage,extra staff and some separation wouldn't have gone amiss.

 

[embers25]

on Saturday 14th whilst on a weekend break with my wife, I went from Exmouth to Exeter Central on a very nicely refurbished 150/2.
It was busy but on arrival at Central it was soon apparent the all was not well. We went up the stairs to the passage towards the barriers and were joined by people who had come up from Plaform 3, we got off on Platform 2.
The barriers are inadequate to cope with those sort of numbers, especially as a lot of the people were obviously not regular train users and were not sure how to use their ticket to open the barrier. There were I believe 4 gates with one member of staff trying to cope with a large press of people.
On our return the situation was even worse. There was an even larger number of people trying to get off the station whilst at the same time an ever increasing number was trying to use the same gates to gain access for their train home or wherever. The one unfortunate member of staff was struggling again to cope and eventually switched one gate to admit us onto the station.
I fully understand that GWR want to protect their revenue stream but if someone goes down on the floor in these crushes, particularly those on staircases a tragedy may well unfold.
I have contacted GWR with my views but would advise anyone using Exeter Central this weekend, when no doubt it will be as busy if not more so to take particular care and be aware of what is likely to be waiting for them.

This happens most mornings Monday-Saturday, every time two trains arrive at once and when the college trains arrives. The queue on platform 2 often extends down the stairs onto the platform. There used to be a side exit to relieve peak pressure, but that got removed.
You can use the other exit but that is one gate and often rejects many valid tickets meaning a VERY long wait for the camera check.
The gate queue is also slowed down by the policy at of most gate staff at both Exeter stations to put every ticket through the barrier. So even on break of journey where they know the barrier won't take it, they put the ticket through the barrier and then open the gate, delaying people further (this is not done at the majority of other stations). Add to this many people on the Exmouth/Paignton/Barnstaple trains don't have tickets and the delays spiral meaning it can take 3-4 minutes to leave the station.
The whole situation at Central is not helped by the gate staff which are some of the worst (outside of London and Manchester). Not only are most jobsworths but also they have zero clue on ticket validity or break of journey rules. The staff at St Davids are not much better, but the difference is that the St Davids staff are at least friendly whilst they are showing their cluelessness.

 

[RPI]

That was definitely unusual, the gates could be better placed but they were installed before the new ticket office and queen street entrance opened, usually it does cope though. There most definitely wont have been one member of gateline staff as it's a requirement to have at least two at Central although one will usually be on the excess desk.

 

[RPI]

This happens most mornings Monday-Saturday, every time two trains arrive at once and when the college trains arrives. The queue on platform 2 often extends down the stairs onto the platform. There used to be a side exit to relieve peak pressure, but that got removed.
You can use the other exit but that is one gate and often rejects many valid tickets meaning a VERY long wait for the camera check.
The gate queue is also slowed down by the policy at of most gate staff at both Exeter stations to put every ticket through the barrier. So even on break of journey where they know the barrier won't take it, they put the ticket through the barrier and then open the gate, delaying people further (this is not done at the majority of other stations). Add to this many people on the Exmouth/Paignton/Barnstaple trains don't have tickets and the delays spiral meaning it can take 3-4 minutes to leave the station.
The whole situation at Central is not helped by the gate staff which are some of the worst (outside of London and Manchester). Not only are most jobsworths but also they have zero clue on ticket validity or break of journey rules. The staff at St Davids are not much better, but the difference is that the St Davids staff are at least friendly whilst they are showing their cluelessness.

As someone who works with these staff I can happily you're wrong, the staff at Central are excellent and basically what you're saying is that you dont like the fact that they do their job properly, you are also incorrect to state that break of journey tickets wont work, they would normally unless it's a barcode ticket and by asking you to scan the barcode ticket even if it doesn't open it marks the ticket as read.
In terms of revenue protection Central are one of the best gatelines on our patch for detecting irregularities too.

 

[FareCop]

This happens most mornings Monday-Saturday, every time two trains arrive at once and when the college trains arrives. The queue on platform 2 often extends down the stairs onto the platform. There used to be a side exit to relieve peak pressure, but that got removed.
You can use the other exit but that is one gate and often rejects many valid tickets meaning a VERY long wait for the camera check.
The gate queue is also slowed down by the policy at of most gate staff at both Exeter stations to put every ticket through the barrier. So even on break of journey where they know the barrier won't take it, they put the ticket through the barrier and then open the gate, delaying people further (this is not done at the majority of other stations). Add to this many people on the Exmouth/Paignton/Barnstaple trains don't have tickets and the delays spiral meaning it can take 3-4 minutes to leave the station.
The whole situation at Central is not helped by the gate staff which are some of the worst (outside of London and Manchester). Not only are most jobsworths but also they have zero clue on ticket validity or break of journey rules. The staff at St Davids are not much better, but the difference is that the St Davids staff are at least friendly whilst they are showing their cluelessness.

The staff at St David's are far from clueless, I think you mean use discresssion. It's a very young team at St David's at the moment, however, when they gain experience and confidence the level of disgression will fade, especially if they are interacting with the same old faces with the same old excuses. The one lad who has been on there for a few years identifies ticket irregularities on a daily basis and the others are watching and learning, gaining confidence. It's such a tough job running a gate line carrying out, customer service, revenue protection etc, constantly being verbally abused because they are doing their job correctly, I take umbrage at the word clueless. Well done gateline colleagues everywhere, you're doing great.

 

[RealTrainBoi]

While I cant comment on the crowding of the station since I'm not an architectural designer. A gateline (from my personal knowledge of travelling) is there to check tickets and electronically check for any discrepancies in tickets, right? Things that you cant tell from checking visibly, I've seen them pick up tickets being used before - which you couldn't tell from a visible check.

Why should the gateline staff not scan your particular ticket just because there is a crowd? If you have the right ticket just go along with it.

Personally attacking the staff, who I know have perfect knowledge and are often just trying to help people, seems childish and pathetic. These people just want to come to work - help people - and go about their day.

What likely occurred was you were rude and stubborn which led to staff being less inclined to help you, not the other way round.

Dissapointed to share the tracks with you tbh.

 

[Snow1964]

Used to be similar problem at Kingston upon Thames, the gateline was close to bottom of stairs, so that in evening peak people queuing down the stairs to get through gates. They eventually moved the gateline as there were some falls on the stairs (and it knocks others over like skittles)

Revenue protection is important, but not supposed to be designed that if a busy train arrives, safety is compromised by making people queue on stairs.

If there were (big) queues in and out at same time suggests insufficient gates have been installed to cope with shopping crowds, a low budget solution rather inconsistent with encouraging train travel.

 

[Mojo]

Until 2011 there used to be mandatory requirements for automatic ticket gates at stations however this unfortunately replaced by a voluntary standard which you can view here https://catalogues.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/RIS-7701-INS Iss 1.pdf.

Whilst this (and its predecessor documents) contains various details about ensuring that facility operators ensure that the number of gates is adequate for peak customer flows and ensuring they are positioned sensibly (eg. not at the bottom/top of a staircase, etc.), and for staff to be appropriately positioned to open the gates in the event of dangerous crowding; it is unfortunately not a concrete requirement and left up to the operators to manage under their own existing procedures and more generic health & safety legislation.

 

[DarloRich]

Hardly chaos! A very slight inconvenience at most. Don't have a trip to Euston when 2 x 12 car LlNWR trains pull into the gated platforms at once..................

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be honest four gates doesn't sound unreasonable for a station handling circa 2.5m passengers per annum. Cardiff Central handles five times that number and has (from memory) six gates at the front of the station, the entrance and exit that the vast majority of passengers use. Sure, they can be a pain at times but people get used to them and learn to queue.

Try Slough, unless they've changed it - on the main side almost everyone uses, for over 5m passengers per annum, there are two regular gates and one wide gate. Yes, it's ridiculous. Typical First.

 

[davetheguard]

As someone who works with these staff I can happily you're wrong, the staff at Central are excellent and basically what you're saying is that you dont like the fact that they do their job properly, you are also incorrect to state that break of journey tickets wont work, they would normally unless it's a barcode ticket and by asking you to scan the barcode ticket even if it doesn't open it marks the ticket as read.
In terms of revenue protection Central are one of the best gatelines on our patch for detecting irregularities too.

I too feel I need to support the barrier staff at Exeter Central. I used to live just around the corner, and used the station three or four times a week. I usually found them pretty friendly who recognised regular customers.

 

[randyrippley]

While I cant comment on the crowding of the station since I'm not an architectural designer. A gateline (from my personal knowledge of travelling) is there to check tickets and electronically check for any discrepancies in tickets, right? Things that you cant tell from checking visibly, I've seen them pick up tickets being used before - which you couldn't tell from a visible check.

Why should the gateline staff not scan your particular ticket just because there is a crowd? If you have the right ticket just go along with it.

Personally attacking the staff, who I know have perfect knowledge and are often just trying to help people, seems childish and pathetic. These people just want to come to work - help people - and go about their day.

What likely occurred was you were rude and stubborn which led to staff being less inclined to help you, not the other way round.

Dissapointed to share the tracks with you tbh.

I wasn't there............but suggesting the gateline staff at ANY station have "perfect knowledge" is just laughable, and accusing the OP of being rude and stubborn is totally unjustified - you have no evidence of that at all. I see you're a first time poster - presumably one of the staff responsible for the reported problems?

 

[randyrippley]

The staff at St David's are far from clueless, I think you mean use discresssion. It's a very young team at St David's at the moment, however, when they gain experience and confidence the level of disgression will fade,...............

To me that reads as a team who've been let loose without adequate training, expected to learn on the job. That isn't good enough when you're taking decisions that will lead to legal consequences for your customers

The one lad who has been on there for a few years identifies ticket irregularities on a daily basis and the others are watching and learning, gaining confidence.

So there is just one member of the team who knows what he's doing

It's such a tough job running a gate line

constantly being verbally abused because they are doing their job correctly, I take umbrage at the word clueless. Well done gateline colleagues everywhere, you're doing great.

You just admitted only one person on your team knows the job, so clueless seems a valid comment. And maybe if the job WAS being done correctly you'd get less abuse

 

[LMS 4F]

As the instigator of this thread I didn't criticise the staff directly, my problem is with layout and the level of staffing. The first priority of any firm, company or whatever must be the safety of its customers, passengers call them what you will.
To my Health and Safety trained eyes the queues stretching back to people waiting on stairs being joined by others arriving from their right and then people trying to go down those same stairs is a tragedy waiting to happen.
I would hope that the gate line staff have taken this matter up with the management, with the assistance of their union rep, because they have a duty under H @ S just as much as those further up the chain. I hope it never happens but a lot could and needs to be done to mitigate the issue which we now learn occurs daily.

 

[RealTrainBoi]

I wasn't there............but suggesting the gateline staff at ANY station have "perfect knowledge" is just laughable, and accusing the OP of being rude and stubborn is totally unjustified - you have no evidence of that at all. I see you're a first time poster - presumably one of the staff responsible for the reported problems?

There's so much infrastructure for staff members to check information I imagine. Including themselves just using google, if you have any common sense - everyone has perfect knowledge if they have the gumption.

Secondly, I'm not staff but I wish I was - I respect the people who have the strength to deal with ignorance all day, and someone who not only can't comprehend how a gateline works - or calls people 'jobsworth' for trying hard at their career - practically reeks of ignorance to me.

Thirdly - yeah it's my first post. Long time lurker

 

[randyrippley]

As someone who works with these staff I can happily you're wrong, the staff at Central are excellent and basically what you're saying is that you dont like the fact that they do their job properly, you are also incorrect to state that break of journey tickets wont work, they would normally unless it's a barcode ticket and by asking you to scan the barcode ticket even if it doesn't open it marks the ticket as read.
In terms of revenue protection Central are one of the best gatelines on our patch for detecting irregularities too.

So perfect revenue protection outweighs the need for passenger safety? You also seem to be saying that what people are reporting as their experiences, didn't happen?

 

[randyrippley]

There's so much infrastructure for staff members to check information I imagine. Including themselves just using google, if you have any common sense - everyone has perfect knowledge if they have the gumption.

Secondly, I'm not staff but I wish I was - I respect the people who have the strength to deal with ignorance all day, and someone who not only can't comprehend how a gateline works - or calls people 'jobsworth' for trying hard at their career - practically reeks of ignorance to me.

Thirdly - yeah it's my first post. Long time lurker

So you expect the gateline staff to use google to do their job? While they have hundreds of passengers trying to get through the gates? Have you any clue how ridiculous that sounds? You clearly can't comprehend how a gateline works. Totally reeks of ignorance

 

[RealTrainBoi]

So you expect the gateline staff to use google to do their job? While they have hundreds of passengers trying to get through the gates? Have you any clue how ridiculous that sounds? You clearly can't comprehend how a gateline works. Totally reeks of ignorance

I literally said that was an OPTION that was included in their arsenal. Look, I dont care what you want from this. I just think OP was being rude and didn't think about the other people. Safe or no, it's not his call. There are very intelligent people who are hired to do this sort of thing. People who are people and need the respect that they clearly weren't given. But end of the day it doesnt matter. Apologies for coming across as rude.

 

[randyrippley]

I literally said that was an OPTION that was included in their arsenal. Look, I dont care what you want from this. I just think OP was being rude and didn't think about the other people. Safe or no, it's not his call. There are very intelligent people who are hired to do this sort of thing. People who are people and need the respect that they clearly weren't given. But end of the day it doesnt matter. Apologies for coming across as rude.

I don't want anything from this, except maybe a re-evaluation of safety at the site.
The OP wasn't being rude: he saw a safety issue and reported it. Only people being rude are those who are effectively calling him a liar.
As for whether or not its his call.........if his safety is at threat then its very much his call. And intelligent people hired as gateline staff? Are you auditioning as a comedian? Passengers are people and need the respect of the railway company staff: who's paying for their wages? It does matter.

 

[Mintona]

The OP wasn’t being rude. There’s definitely a case for saying embers25 was though, I feel that’s who RealTrainBoi was directing his posts at.

 

[embers25]

To be clear, I use Exeter Central regularly and always with valid printed tickets and always, without exception, the barriers reject valid break of journey unless it is something basic like Exmouth to Dawlish. The issue I have is that whilst i am fine with BoJ being rejected, tickets and being put through the barrier, I am not fine with BoJ being rejected and the gate staff claiming either the BoJ isn't valid or the route isn't valid when both are, then giving the usual "I'll let it go this once" speech. I'm also not fine with the VERY slow response times to check cameras at the other exit (before you say it could be busy at the main exit, I am aware but I've watched them in the main part on numerous occasions ignore that camera and finish chatting amongst themselves first).

I fully appreciate, with the scale of fare dodging on Devon metro, that gateline staff are needed and that they can't know everything, but they don't even know the basics of ticket validity half the time and are more concerned about chatting to each other. Bar one person there, they are also some of the rudest staff I've come across. My point with St Davids being better was not that their staff are more lenient as they are, if anything, more strict and also put tickets through the machine for break of journey. The difference is that they are so much more friendly and helpful. You will often see the gateline staff there assisting customers with all sorts of things not revenue related. They are much more customer focused and give a good impression of GWR, as do the the guards that work Devon metro, who get a lot of abuse from passengers (Paignton trains give late night Valley Line trains a run for their money).

The fact that FareCop admitted St Davids were inexperienced in his/her defense of how capable the staff are, sums up everything we need to know. Also, I take issue with the statement "constantly being verbally abused because they are doing their job correctly". Whilst that is definitely true some of the time, much of the frustration the public have with gateline staff is that, as you said yourself, they are "inexperienced" and don't do their job correctly and don't know even basic fare rules. It is fine to not know everything, it is not fine to blindly say the customer is wrong, without (a) bothering checking what the correct rules actually are or (b) not knowing where to check. That highlights both poor customer service training and poor technical training as Paddington gateline staff demonstrate on a regular basis.

 

[RPI]

So perfect revenue protection outweighs the need for passenger safety? You also seem to be saying that what people are reporting as their experiences, didn't happen?

From a position of experience I'm disputing it yes, that's my right, theres two sides to every story remember, this is mine.
No I'm not saying perfect revenue protection outweighs passenger safety, I'm confident that revenue is effectively protected in a safe manner at this station.

 

[LMS 4F]

From a position of experience I'm disputing it yes, that's my right, theres two sides to every story remember, this is mine.
No I'm not saying perfect revenue protection outweighs passenger safety, I'm confident that revenue is effectively protected in a safe manner at this station.

IT is of course a matter of opinion but what I saw and experienced on Saturday last was not safe in my opinion. I didn't feel safe as a reasonably fit adult male, what anyone with small children, elderly and disabled people felt I don't know but I wouldnt want to have been one of those groups.
I didn't blame the unfortunate staff member except to wonder if they are allowed to use discretion and open the barrier to relieve such a build up.
I had noticed both at Exmouth and another calling station staff selling tickets as well as the train crew. It was obvious to me that GWR were expecting large numbers to travel, in my opinion it was just a pity they didn't take positive steps to safeguard their customers at Central.

 

[randyrippley]

From a position of experience I'm disputing it yes, that's my right, theres two sides to every story remember, this is mine.
No I'm not saying perfect revenue protection outweighs passenger safety, I'm confident that revenue is effectively protected in a safe manner at this station.

So you weren't there, he was, and you're effectively calling him a liar.
And as a matter of interest, does the "RP" in your nickname mean "revenue protection"?

 

[RPI]

IT is of course a matter of opinion but what I saw and experienced on Saturday last was not safe in my opinion. I didn't feel safe as a reasonably fit adult male, what anyone with small children, elderly and disabled people felt I don't know but I wouldnt want to have been one of those groups.
I didn't blame the unfortunate staff member except to wonder if they are allowed to use discretion and open the barrier to relieve such a build up.
I had noticed both at Exmouth and another calling station staff selling tickets as well as the train crew. It was obvious to me that GWR were expecting large numbers to travel, in my opinion it was just a pity they didn't take positive steps to safeguard their customers at Central.

The staff are full trained and competent and are aware of when its appropriate to open the gates when its deemed unsafe, each gateline staff with GWR has a comprehensive training course and is assessed at the end, the pass rate for a full competency card is upward of 90%.

 

[RPI]

So you weren't there, he was, and you're effectively calling him a liar.
And as a matter of interest, does the "RP" in your nickname mean "revenue protection"?

Disputing is not calling anyone a liar, I'm saying the scenario is not normal, yes RP does stand for Revenue Protection and I've never hid the nature of my employment although gatelines on GWR do not come under the remit of Revenue Protection and are managed and staffed by stations grades.

 

[randyrippley]

Disputing is not calling anyone a liar, I'm saying the scenario is not normal, yes RP does stand for Revenue Protection and I've never hid the nature of my employment although gatelines on GWR do not come under the remit of Revenue Protection and are managed and staffed by stations grades.

So you're a revenue protection staffer, talking about a gateline you don't work at, trying to convince us that multiple passengers reporting unsafe working practices didn't actually see what they saw, or experience what they experienced. I'd take that as equivalent to calling them liars.
Do you view all passengers in the same way?