Charged a Penalty Fare by FCC for using a Greater Anglia Only ticket

[hairyhandedfool]

....I don't think that it would be too difficult to use a similar process at Cambridge, with "Route Bishops Stortford" for GA only fares....

Except that in the case of Cambridge-London 'route Bishop Stortford' could potentially give Greater Anglia less money due to Cross Country services going to Stansted and possibly HS1 services to St Pancras.

....Anyone who does not know if their train goes through Bishops Stortford or not would hopefully then select Any Permitted as a Safe Option....

Except that in the past some people have accused this approach as a stealth fare raise.

 

[alcockell]

People can choose to be restricted to one train operating company in order to receive a discount. Very few if any flows do not have either an ANY PERMITTED fare or an exhaustive set of geographic fares (e.g. †VIA LONDON and NOT VIA LONDON).

I suppose I always bought from a ticket office - unless I was requesting a Travelcard via work for a course or event.

Either that or a Rail Appointed Travel Agent - so I left it to them to sort it.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I believe that when rail privatization was being planned in the 1990s, one of the proposals was that ALL tickets would be Train Operating Company specific. Passengers making journeys using different TOCs would have had to buy separate tickets for each leg! Thankfully this idea was quickly binned and through ticketing between all stations and all TOCs preserved, with the money split between the TOCs accordingly.

 

[jon0844]

TVMs could easily be made to offer a more friendly UI (get someone in from Google or Apple), which would allow more complex transactions with a much easier experience.

You could have a home page with clearly separated sections, for flexible tickets and operator specific tickets (merely being shown that would make you aware that the latter has restrictions and things you need to pay attention to). As there's always an any permitted option, those who aren't sure can buy that and be 'secure'.

I've also suggested a wizard system for beginners, with an advanced option that can be accessed with a menu option on one side/bottom/top or wherever. And then doing proper usability testing, using a mix of people and eye tracking to see how people use it.

Then tweak things until you now have a system that is more user friendly, quicker to use and can relay critical information to people - such as restrictions or the need to have a certain railcard.

The only risk is that if you make TVMs foolproof, you really will render all staff at stations obsolete (until the machines aren't loaded with ticket stock!).

 

[jopsuk]

At the weekend, I'll try to get a photo of the TVM screens at Cambridge to show what they say.

As I've already mentioned several times, the machines show "Liverpool Street only" on the selection buttons for the tickets that are actually "Greater Anglia" only on the tickets themselves. The other tickets, valid to Kings Cross, are also valid to Liverpool Street. There are cheaper tickets to allow people a trade off of paying less for a slower route. It is all pretty simple and better marked than you lot seem to be imagining.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Clear TVMs have their place but you have to bear in mind that a significant minority (they used to say 1 in 10) of the UK population are functionally illiterate. Add to that those whose first language isn't English. They may chance it and have a go with the TVM and think that they've got it when they see "LONDON" but understand nothing of the restrictions. Maybe you can blame them for not using the ticket office, who may be willing to explain exactly which trains can and cannot be used an a particular ticket.

 

[paaltjes]

I would like to thank everybody for their replies and contributions. I have appealed against the Penalty Fare Notice (not a fine!!!) and am awaiting a reply. Thanks again.

 

[RJ]

At the weekend, I'll try to get a photo of the TVM screens at Cambridge to show what they say.

As I've already mentioned several times, the machines show "Liverpool Street only" on the selection buttons for the tickets that are actually "Greater Anglia" only on the tickets themselves. The other tickets, valid to Kings Cross, are also valid to Liverpool Street. There are cheaper tickets to allow people a trade off of paying less for a slower route. It is all pretty simple and better marked than you lot seem to be imagining.

Doesn't surprise me at all, but I'm glad that someone from the Cambridge end has come out and confirmed that.

Given that this appears to be an anti-TOC forum, it'll probably upset the people who insist that the railway is out to entrap and defraud its customers! As I said in the other thread of the same topic, it's highly unwise for someone who doesn't know how to use a ticket machine to make a decision not to seek any assistance.

 

[jon0844]

Maybe a TVM should have a 'call for assistance' button to let you talk to someone, as against making someone who opted to use a machine (just as people are now encouraged to self checkout in a supermarket) now has to give up and go back to join a long queue - if the ticket office is open at all.

Next time I go to Cambridge I'll take photos, but the pictures elsewhere showing what the ones at Liverpool St are like aren't convincing me that a TVM is a good option to use at any station with multiple routes and operators.

By comparison, it's very easy at Hatfield with only one route and operator. However, there was some six months or more before the TVMs were updated to offer super off-peak tickets, so anyone using a TVM at weekends was buying a ticket that wouldn't be sold at the ticket office. And it's apparently not illegal to do that, even if it's very sneaky and immoral (in my opinion) and especially bad when many stations have VERY limited ticket office opening hours on a weekend.

 

[Ferret]

I would like to thank everybody for their replies and contributions. I have appealed against the Penalty Fare Notice (not a fine!!!) and am awaiting a reply. Thanks again.

Well, I wish you the best of luck with this. On what grounds did you appeal, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[island]

Maybe a TVM should have a 'call for assistance' button to let you talk to someone, as against making someone who opted to use a machine (just as people are now encouraged to self checkout in a supermarket) now has to give up and go back to join a long queue - if the ticket office is open at all.

I think LUL POMs offer this facility.

 

[RJ]

I would like to thank everybody for their replies and contributions. I have appealed against the Penalty Fare Notice (not a fine!!!) and am awaiting a reply. Thanks again.

Well, the worst they can do is say no! Let us know how it goes!

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, may I say 'good luck' too. Nothing to lose.

 

[Mojo]

I think LUL POMs offer this facility.

They do, but London Underground stations are more likely to have staff available in the ticket hall rather than stuck behind a ticket office window, and a process is in place to draw the staff's attention to the 'call for assistance.'

 

[RPI]

As a slight aside but not entirely off topic, I notice that from stations where there is only a TVM (Topsham) 90% of people manage to use it including the elderly, disabled and children the reason being is that they have to use it because there is no other means to buy a ticket and there is an active and enforced PF scheme, but,from stations that have a ticket office and a TVM you find that people don't even try and use it because they are scared of it, if i'm on duty at a staffed station and there is a queue i always picke people from the queue who are travelling today and take them to the TVM's to use and most of them usually comment along the lines "Oh, that was easier than i thought". But, as highlighted in this thread, when you bring multiple routes and operator specific tickets into the scenario it does make things that bit more confusing for joe public! You certainly have nothing to lose by appealing and every appeal cost's the TOC £8 so even if not successful you can possibly gain a small moral victory by that.

 

[Greenback]

TVM's do have their place, but people mostly prefer to talk to a human being for anything but the most simple tickets. I would never dream of buying a Swansea-Cardiff ticket from the booking office, I'd rather leave the human facility for those who want to know the cheapest route to Gatwick, or for those buying SailRail, monthly and longer seasons, or split tickets!

Despite this, the fact remains that the clerk will usually sell and issue me a simple ticket quicker than the machine will ( assuming there is no queue). By the time I locate the destination, try and get the touch screen to work, then try and get the machine to accept my money, I could have bought at the counter in half the time!

 

[jon0844]

TVMs are probably used mostly for fairly simple local return tickets or Travel cards - and at stations without an office, people learn after a while but how many took a while to learn and possibly bought the wrong tickets at least once?

 

[Yew]

TVMs are probably used mostly for fairly simple local return tickets or Travel cards - and at stations without an office, people learn after a while but how many took a while to learn and possibly bought the wrong tickets at least once?

Maybe instead of offering Day returns, seasons, off peak returns etc, they could ask you for your travel plans, and sell the apropriate ticket?

 

[jon0844]

This is why I propose a wizard style ticket sale option, in addition to a system for regulars who know exactly what they want.

This option could start you off instead of tickets for today/tomorrow (which in itself is no good for anyone wanting to buy tickets further in the future).

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[David Goddard]

I generally prefer buying from the ticket windows as it keeps up their usage and so in theory maintains a case for their retention.

However, if you can call up any ticket on a TOC's web page then there should be no reason why this cant be made possible on a TVM. It is afterall just a fancy type of touch screen computer. Then you would be able to purchase a combination of tickets, and also tickets for journeys not involving the location from the TVM.

For example my regular Reading-Coventry run (where I buy RDG-BAN and BAN-COV) I need to either queue at the window, or book online the night before and collect from a TVM. If the TVMs could do the above then I could get both legs from one of these.