Cheap Railfare Help? Thanks

[xtradj]

travelling lime street to newcastle... or driving

cheapest next day return sat - sun, is £66

however TP express do cheap fares ie liverpool to leeds.. leeds to newcastle

so techically with time and patience i could work out a cheaper fare

however wondered if anyone knew a website that did this for you? cause obviously if theres a cheap 9am train to leeds arriving at 11am id need a cheap 11am train to newcastle, but we all know it doesnt work like that

so im looking for a site that shows all value fares?

 

[me123]

AFAIK, there's no site that works out splitting fares for you. You have to do it yourself

TPE Advance Tickets do not cover connections, hence why your journey is not available. Using TPE only is a slower route, so does not come up in NXEC journey planner. If you search on the journey planner, however, if you select "show slower routes: Transpennine Trains Only", you can get cheap fares!

I've got Advance Tickets from £18-£29 single using this, with pretty decent availability. That's the best option I can find. It's hidden away, which is pretty tricksy

You can also try splitting at York onto a NXEC/XC train to see if you can get any cheap fares that way as well, although you're not likely to save much that way by the looks of things, but if you play about splitting tickets along the line, you might find a really cheap fare!

 

[xtradj]

got it down to 40 quid... 27 with RC

but it meant leaving at 6am, and arriving home at 11pm

not the worst.. but probably gonna drive

 

[djw1981]

Google maps has station to station at 173 miles each way. So 346 in total.
Assuming 40mpg (motorway run etc) that is 8.65 gallons, or roughly 39 litres.
My local tesco is 89.9p per litre, so that is roughly £35 in fuel alone.

If we include normal running costs, HMRC reckon on 40p as being a 'fair' rate, so the 'cost' of your journey is £138.40 by car.

 

[yorkie]

Try splitting at York or Leeds to get the cheapest AP fares. York is probably a better place to split.

 

[paul1609]

Google maps has station to station at 173 miles each way. So 346 in total.
Assuming 40mpg (motorway run etc) that is 8.65 gallons, or roughly 39 litres.
My local tesco is 89.9p per litre, so that is roughly £35 in fuel alone.

If we include normal running costs, HMRC reckon on 40p as being a 'fair' rate, so the 'cost' of your journey is £138.40 by car.

£138.40 seems a bit over the top! Hertz Liverpool will rent me a Fiesta 1.25 s for tomorrow, returning first thing monday for £30.21. I reckon fuel would come to around £30 leaving you change from the rail fare to pay for parking in Newcastle.

 

[glynn80]

If we take the UK average of 12,000 miles driven per year then the running and standing costs (including fuel) and the cost of the car was less than £10,000 when bought new will be between 29.46p and 35.86p per mile.

Sources: DfT and AA

 

[Mojo]

Unless you're trying to reclaim tax - accounting for depreciation, vehicle excise duty & insurance is frankly insane if you've got a car sitting on your driveway.

Even just including depreciation is crazy as its an asset that you will be using and will thus generate value for you.

 

[paul1609]

Opps Mojo sneeked a post in! the following refers to `glynns post;

i wouldnt dispute that, but if you already own a car the marginal cost will probably be considerably less and its these that you should consider for a one off journey when comparing with rail. If you take the hertz quote, djws fuel estimate and allow £5 for parking it works out at about 17.5p per mile again using djws mileage estimate.

 

[theblackwatch]

There's also the fact that the car will depreciate if you don't do the 346 mile journey. I would like to hear someone answer how much it would cost (taking into account the fixed costs) to leave my car on the street rather than use it for the journey - answers please....

 

[paul1609]

depreciation of my (nearly new hire car) is of course included in the price...

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There's also the fact that the car will depreciate if you don't do the 346 mile journey. I would like to hear someone answer how much it would cost (taking into account the fixed costs) to leave my car on the street rather than use it for the journey - answers please....

I budget for £2000 per year per vehicle.
That's the cost of leaving them on the street/driveway and includes tax, insurance, maintenance, repairs, MOT, RAC membership, lubricants, parking permits, tyres (and those things that need to be renewed even if not driven much such as exhaust, batteries etc).
Having had several vehicles at once for many years this hasn't been far out and sometimes there are even larger maintenance costs that go over that budget - even without accidents or damage.

 

[theblackwatch]

Does your figure include depreciation as well?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Does your figure include depreciation as well?

Nope.

And to give it better context, I tend to buy older vehicles (typically 3 - 7 or so years old) where there might be higher maintenance costs than new, but depreciation is of course lower (in absolute terms rather than percentage).

(Additionally, some people should be adding the cost of the real estate a vehicle occupies. eg the land & building costs of owning a garage or driveway).

 

[djw1981]

I based my mpg on my Ford Ka, so should be similar for teh fiesta (which shares an engine, but has a heavier body)

 

[glynn80]

Nope.

(Additionally, some people should be adding the cost of the real estate a vehicle occupies. eg the land & building costs of owning a garage or driveway).

But surely this adds value rather than acts as a cost?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

But surely this adds value rather than acts as a cost?

Eh?
Adds value to what?

Building a garage or driveway may add value to a motorist's property, but I am also adding the COSTS to the total cost of being a car-owner.
It all adds up.

I'm saying it costs £2k p.a. in recurring costs (that's £6 per day) to own a car, before you even think about a journey, and I'm proposing that a garage-owner or driveway-owner should add their land costs and charges to that.

When comparing with rail (or other modes), I'm claiming that ALL costs of car ownership should be in the comparison.

 

[glynn80]

Eh?
Adds value to what?

Building a garage or driveway may add value to a motorist's property, but I am also adding the COSTS to the total cost of being a car-owner.
It all adds up.

I'm saying it costs £2k p.a. in recurring costs (that's £6 per day) to own a car, before you even think about a journey, and I'm proposing that a garage-owner or driveway-owner should add their land costs and charges to that.

When comparing with rail (or other modes), I'm claiming that ALL costs of car ownership should be in the comparison.

Yes, when talking about adding value I was talking about the motorists property. I still don't understand what you mean by "land costs"? If I buy a house already with a garage, when I come to sell my house that asset will still be there, so the outlay for a more expensive house with a garage will be offset when I come to sell the property in the long term. If I decide instead to build a garage on spare land I have next to my property it is very likely that this will also add value equal to or higher than the outlay of having the garage built (as long as it doesn't detract too much from other features the property has, like the garden).

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Yes, when talking about adding value I was talking about the motorists property. I still don't understand what you mean by "land costs"? . . . . .

Ah yes, I see what you mean, thanks.
I was proposing that some of the costs of the land which a motorist owns, and uses for keeping a vehicle, should be charged to the cost of car ownership. These would include any rent, rates, a proportion of heating & lighting and security facilities, insurances etc.
I take your point that the cost of buying land might not be included by a private home owner (though should be included by a business user).
[Tho in a falling market maybe even the loss in value of a driveway could be attributed ? !]
I was really thinking more of the high costs of garaging and off-street car parking in dense city centres.

 

[theblackwatch]

As my car is parked on the public road outside my house, I don't think I have any of these costs! Is it not a little extreme to start including these - if you do, then surely the 'cost' of eating meals at home should cover not only the food, but also the appropriate costs of providing a the facilities (fitted kitchen, cooker, fridge, etc)? It is probably cheaper to eat out all the time and scrap your kitchen!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Well maybe.
But I think if you were rich enough to have a garage in central London then perhaps you might agree that the cost of its land (and rates, insurance etc.) was a cost you would consider when trying to make a comparison between the private car and public transport? (Some people made their homes in those "mews" garages!)

We all have different factors that apply to us, but I do think most of us car owners have a bias towards disregarding some of the costs of car ownership and when comparing with the cost of rail we tend to avoid considering them all, sometimes to the point of denial.(eg "it would be sitting in the driveway anyway" as if somehow its fixed overheads are suspended while we're on the train).
By contrast, if the drain blocked and forced foul water into the garage or someone broke-in while it was parked on the road - while we were travelling by train, we would suddenly "remember" that the water drainage rates or the insurance policy WAS operating simultaneously with the train journey.