Checking tickets when passengers change trains

[Llandudno]

TOC’s have no incentive to check tickets as the govt (taxpayer) is picking up the tab at the moment anyway!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

TOC’s have no incentive to check tickets as the govt (taxpayer) is picking up the tab at the moment anyway!

I can't imagine there won't be some form of revenue-related incentive in the EMAs; otherwise the TOCs could simply spare the effort of staffing ticket officers and ticket barriers. The DfT has gone as far as to say that there will be a performance related bonus up for grabs at the end of the EMAs, and I wouldn't be surprised if revenue collection percentages are a part of the calculations informing that.

 

[Parallel]

It used to happen at Cardiff Queen Street regularly in the subway between Platforms 1/2 and 3/4. Maybe to catch people out changing to/from the bay.

 

[matt_world2004]

I can't imagine there won't be some form of revenue-related incentive in the EMAs; otherwise the TOCs could simply spare the effort of staffing ticket officers and ticket barriers. The DfT has gone as far as to say that there will be a performance related bonus up for grabs at the end of the EMAs, and I wouldn't be surprised if revenue collection percentages are a part of the calculations informing that.

There will be a franchise requirement to keep ticket offices open for certain amount of hours per day so they will follow that. TfL contracts also specify targets for ticketless travel . Which the operator is free to achieve however they wish including using revenue inspections as a deterrent .

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Shrewsbury is a dreadful station when you have to rush over from P4-P7 to make a tight connection from P3. Having descended the steps, you often have to queue up with terminating passengers to be allowed out of the main part of the station and then go round the corner and up another steep set of stairs in the hope that your train is still there.

There used to be a through walkway from P3 to the old Gay Meadow football ground which cut about a mile off the walking distance. But it was hardly ever open. I only managed to do it once and I think this was unofficial as the gate had been vandalized.

 

[Parallel]

Shrewsbury is a dreadful station when you have to rush over from P4-P7 to make a tight connection from P3. Having descended the steps, you often have to queue up with terminating passengers to be allowed out of the main part of the station and then go round the corner and up another steep set of stairs in the hope that your train is still there.

I agree. A few years ago, I was on Platform 3 with many other passengers when over the tannoy... *BING BONG* Your attention please on Platform 3... This is a platform alteration. The train now approaching Platform 4 is the 17:25 Arriva Trains Wales service to Holyhead!’

Cue everyone running down the stairs with suitcases, having to wait to be able to get through the barriers and then up to the platform. Hopefully everyone who wanted to board got there in time!

 

[jamesst]

Ticket checks in the interchange passageways between the Northern/Wirral lines at both Liverpool Moorfields and Central happen on a fairly frequent basis.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Late platform changes are invariably a nightmare. Often used to be the case that Southbound Thameslink trains at London Bridge were switched at the last moment from Platform 5 to Platform 4, chaos normally ensued!

 

[urbophile]

Ticket checks in the interchange passageways between the Northern/Wirral lines at both Liverpool Moorfields and Central happen on a fairly frequent basis.

Is that just since Covid? I've used both those interchanges fairly often until recently and have never encountered checks.

 

[jamesst]

Is that just since Covid? I've used both those interchanges fairly often until recently and have never encountered checks.

Been random for as long as i can remember. Maybe you've been unlucky...or lucky!!!

 

[peters]

Rather depends on the layout of stations. Often happens e.g. at Manchester Piccadilly changing from Platforms 13/14 to the other platforms.

That hasn't happened for a few years now. The ticket checks have moved to the doors for platform 10 with the door for platform 11 now out-of-use meaning passengers going to platforms 10-11 and 13-14 from the concourse are all checked by the same people and those going from 10-11 to 13-14 aren't checked.

 

[peters]

But that at least is to a different part of the station. Bradford Interchange is just a small number of adjacent platforms.

Why does that matter? If you're not familiar with the station you won't be aware that it takes longer to get from platform 9 to 13 than from 1 to 12. There's also occasions where late running TransPennine Express trains go in to a dead end platform at Piccadilly instead of running to the airport, meaning the return northbound service due to depart from platform 14 can instead depart from somewhere like platform 5.

 

[DB]

Most fare paying passengers would welcome any attempt to stop people scamming the system and trying to travel for free.

I suspect you will find that most people actually couldn't care less either way.

 

[TUC]

Why does that matter? If you're not familiar with the station you won't be aware that it takes longer to get from platform 9 to 13 than from 1 to 12. There's also occasions where late running TransPennine Express trains go in to a dead end platform at Piccadilly instead of running to the airport, meaning the return northbound service due to depart from platform 14 can instead depart from somewhere like platform 5.

I meant that one more readily justify ticket checks between different parts of a large station, where someone could seek to board trains to a number of different destinations, than a small station with the connecting train adjacent to the platform where one has just disembarked.

 

[peters]

I meant that one more readily justify ticket checks between different parts of a large station, where someone could seek to board trains to a number of different destinations, than a small station with the connecting train adjacent to the platform where one has just disembarked.

Logically the additional ticket checks should be where the operator thinks there are people avoiding paying the correct fare for their journey, rather than putting them in predictable places only at large stations.

Out of interest did you daughter have her ticket checked either on leaving Halifax or on both trains she travelled on? If the answer is no to both then she could have got away with underpaying had there been no ticket checks at Bradford.

 

[peters]

I suspect you will find that most people actually couldn't care less either way.

I suspect most people think it should be a fair system. For instance, if you're a passenger who makes and pays for Leeds to Bradford journeys then you'd probably see it as unjust if people travelling from Leeds to Todmorden can get away with only paying the fare to Bradford because no-one ever checks tickets either on the train or at Todmorden.

 

[DB]

I suspect most people think it should be a fair system. For instance, if you're a passenger who makes and pays for Leeds to Bradford journeys then you'd probably see it as unjust if people travelling from Leeds to Todmorden can get away with only paying the fare to Bradford because no-one ever checks tickets either on the train or at Todmorden.

I'd regard it as none of my business - it's up to to the railways to deal with this, and provided they don't do it an officious way which causes irritation to everyone I don't care how or whether they do it. I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[tpjm]

In any case you can do any change at Manc Picc without passing the gates, you just use the footbridge.

Not so, this was discontinued several years ago by order of the station management. Any revenue checks done there are merely ad-hoc. The only manual checks done are between platforms 8 and 11, so the over bridge offers access to all platforms for interchange purposes without the need to re-pass thought a ticket gate or manual inspection.

You will occasionally find my colleagues at the bottom or top of the stairs on the bay platforms ready to recheck customers tickets as they change trains. I've been out to work the revenue block a few times and it is staggering the number of people who see you waiting and spend a few seconds tapping their phone to activate the ticket before coming down onto the platform. Even then you'll get tickets that are Manchester - Ashburys and when asked how they got into the station, they are unable to present a ticket for the inward portion. This type of check is often unexpected and this is where the genuine fare dodgers are filtered from the people who genuinely assumed they could buy on the train.

 

[Scott1]

I'd regard it as none of my business - it's up to to the railways to deal with this, and provided they don't do it an officious way which causes irritation to everyone I don't care how or whether they do it. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Depends how you look upon it. Much like some shoppers being angered by shoplifting because it increases the price of goods, some passengers see fare evasion as pushing up the cost of their ticket. A complaint I've had a few times is from passengers who haven't had their ticket checked, so don't see why they paid when others didn't have to. Less common these days mind you, since most of the rural routes have ticket machines and penaulty fare schemes.

 

[TUC]

You will occasionally find my colleagues at the bottom or top of the stairs on the bay platforms ready to recheck customers tickets as they change trains. I've been out to work the revenue block a few times and it is staggering the number of people who see you waiting and spend a few seconds tapping their phone to activate the ticket before coming down onto the platform. Even then you'll get tickets that are Manchester - Ashburys and when asked how they got into the station, they are unable to present a ticket for the inward portion. This type of check is often unexpected and this is where the genuine fare dodgers are filtered from the people who genuinely assumed they could buy on the train.

I have no problem with such ticket checks at large stations. My issue, bearing in mind that Leeds-Halifax trains are through journeys in normal times, is that, not only requiring passengers to change trains, but also requiring them to divert to get their tickets checked, seems to be adding insult upon injury to passengers who have already been inconvenienced.

 

[Class195]

I have no problem with such ticket checks at large stations. My issue, bearing in mind that Leeds-Halifax trains are through journeys in normal times, is that, not only requiring passengers to change trains, but also requiring them to divert to get their tickets checked, seems to be adding insult upon injury to passengers who have already been inconvenienced.

If you have a valid ticket though, why would you be bothered by staff doing their job?

I'd happily have my ticket checked on every train, at every station if it stops the fare dodging.

 

[robbeech]

Can anyone confirm the point from a reliable source within the industry that whilst ticket revenue goes to the government, penalty fare and other prosecution revenue still goes into the TOC pot? This would be quite a notable incentive to have revenue teams placed in, unusual or awkward places to maximise on this type of (justifiable) revenue.

Are TOCs all that fussed just now with Emergency Measures Agreements still in place?

Not in the slightest.

 

[matt_world2004]

Can anyone confirm the point from a reliable source within the industry that whilst ticket revenue goes to the government, penalty fare and other prosecution revenue still goes into the TOC pot? This would be quite a notable incentive to have revenue teams placed in, unusual or awkward places to maximise on this type of (justifiable) revenue.
Not in the slightest.

I thought the government looked at all revenues made by the TOC and then just covered the shortfall under the emergency measures.

 

[robbeech]

I’m led to believe this is only for normal ticket sales.

 

[matt_world2004]

I’m led to believe this is only for normal ticket sales.

This would not explain why the TOC's revenues were classed as public sector revenues for ONS purposes then.

 

[peters]

I have no problem with such ticket checks at large stations. My issue, bearing in mind that Leeds-Halifax trains are through journeys in normal times, is that, not only requiring passengers to change trains, but also requiring them to divert to get their tickets checked, seems to be adding insult upon injury to passengers who have already been inconvenienced.

We've seen the same thing happen at Stockport. Peak time extras to Chester via Altrincham should start from Manchester but they start at Stockport due to 'pathing constraints.' It used to be the case that the official connection shown in timetables and journey planners was the Liverpool to Norwich service which goes in to platform 0 at Stockport, the Chester service departs from platform 2 or occasionally platform 1 which meant passengers changing could find their tickets checked at Stockport and up to another 4 times on a short journey (once at each station they use and once on board each train.)

 

[fishquinn]

If you have a valid ticket though, why would you be bothered by staff doing their job?

Because I've had many staff give me hassle over completely valid tickets in the past and am frankly sick of it - with some tickets I use it's a very pleasant surprise to have someone checking my ticket who knows what they're doing.

 

[yorkie]

If you have a valid ticket though, why would you be bothered by staff doing their job?

I'd happily have my ticket checked on every train, at every station if it stops the fare dodging.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not many people are going to agree with that.

As for whether they are doing their job correctly, I'd argue that if they were, passengers would not be worried about making the connection, as suitable assurances should be provided.

Someone made me miss my connection, which in turn put my next connection at risk, last week. I've made a complaint to the relevant company.

 

[Rob F]

Was happening at Preston over two years ago, well before Covid-19. Changed from TPE to Virgin to go north and there were Virgin staff on the stairs checking all tickets.

 

[johntea]

It is interesting how some will forensically examine your ticket to the extent of checking the fingerprints to prove you bought it (joking!) whilst others just glance, see you have a bit of orange card and let you pass

You often find they are distracted with one passenger arguing over their ticket so a flood of other passengers end up getting through without a check (I heard a supervisor or similar yelling 'just let them through!' at Piccadilly recently presumably due to a massive queue building up due to this which is not good with all the current social distancing nonsense...)