Cheltenham to Birmingham - very high non advance fares

[Mikey C]

Having done this journey last week, I was surprised at how much more expensive this is than Bristol to Cheltenham, which isn't much shorter a distance

Taking off peak fares, Bristol TM to Cheltenham is 9.90 single, 10:00 return

By contrast Cheltenham to Birmingham NS is 26:40 for a single or 26:90 return

That seems a massive difference, for fairly similar distances, and with the same operator Cross Country

 

[Fawkes Cat]

But different fare setters: to Birmingham is by Cross Country, to Bristol by Great Western.

 

[trentvalley]

Where cross country are the fare setter nationally the fare is a ridiculous amount

 

[gray1404]

Also, what sort of tickets were these? Advances or tickets that can be purchased on the day?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The fares quoted are off peak for the Birmingham route and off peak DAY tickets for the Bristol route (with different time restrictions).
Off peak return for Bristol is 19.40 (no single).
Anytime fares are 26.40/13.20 (Bristol) and 43.30/23.60 (Birmingham), almost double.
For what it's worth, the Birmingham fares apply to Birmingham International too.

 

[Merseysider]

Starmill worded a relevant post well:

Some people call it effective extraction of consumer surplus, other people might more pejoratively call it ripping people off.

The trains are tiny (4/5 carriages) so are full a lot of the time. They might as well charge high fares because the trains will still be full.

 

[Ianno87]

Starmill worded a relevant post well:

The trains are tiny (4/5 carriages) so are full a lot of the time. They might as well charge high fares because the trains will still be full.

And that's how Arriva have turned XC into a premium-paying franchise.

 

[Mikey C]

Starmill worded a relevant post well:

The trains are tiny (4/5 carriages) so are full a lot of the time. They might as well charge high fares because the trains will still be full.

Seems bizarre that they are allowed to do that. Or do they get away with it as Cross Country services so many different regions and local authorities that no concerted political pressure arises?

Bristol/Cardiff via the likes of Worcester, Gloucester and Cheltenham to Birmingham should be major regional routes, not ones where people are priced off, but not being in the southeast or under a Mayor (like Northern Rail) or a devolved government like Wales or Scotland I guess the issues get sidelined.

 

[JonathanH]

Seems bizarre that they are allowed to do that. Or do they get away with it as Cross Country services so many different regions and local authorities that no concerted political pressure arises?

Isn't the point here that Cheltenham to Birmingham has always been an Intercity route (no probably not - see below) and as such a premium was charged and the fare has just continued to go up while at some point GWR actually reduced the price of their local flows inherited from Wessex Trains so the fares are lower. Both will continue to go up from this point.

My copy of NFM74 from 2000 says the Saver return fare from Cheltenham to Birmingham was £15.30 (restriction 8A - any train) and the Saver return fare from Cheltenham to Bristol Temple Meads was £13.20 (restriction 8A - any train) - both set by Wales & West.

 

[Starmill]

Seems bizarre that they are allowed to do that.

I wouldn't call it bizarre exactly. It's government policy to charge as many people who chose rail travel as possible a lot of money. There are some historical circumstances where that has not happened, GWR routes east of Swindon was one of those, but it has been taken forward in many places all over the country.

 

[Starmill]

a Mayor (like Northern Rail)

The Mayor of Greater Manchester has failed to put even a little bit of pressure on the government or the company to keep fare rises in check...

 

[Randomer]

I do find the argument that Crosscountry want to use pricing to reduce demand on this route bizarre. The fastest trains Cheltenham to Birmingham are also the same ones doing Cheltenham to Bristol.

It is all about the DfT allowing Arriva to massively increase prices on routes they set the fares to. Cheltenham to Birmingham is just one of the most egregious examples.

 

[Mikey C]

I wouldn't call it bizarre exactly. It's government policy to charge as many people who chose rail travel as possible a lot of money. There are some historical circumstances where that has not happened, GWR routes east of Swindon was one of those, but it has been taken forward in many places all over the country.

But I'm not talking about rail fares in general, but about the discrepancy between 2 very similar routes in the same part of the world.

Isn't the point here that Cheltenham to Birmingham has always been an Intercity route (no probably not - see below) and as such a premium was charged and the fare has just continued to go up while at some point GWR actually reduced the price of their local flows inherited from Wessex Trains so the fares are lower. Both will continue to go up from this point.

My copy of NFM74 from 2000 says the Saver return fare from Cheltenham to Birmingham was £15.30 (restriction 8A - any train) and the Saver return fare from Cheltenham to Bristol Temple Meads was £13.20 (restriction 8A - any train) - both set by Wales & West.

That's really interesting thanks. Those fare price differences seem logical, £15:30 over £13:30 to reflect the slightly longer route. Now the comparative fares are massively out of sync

 

[221129]

I do find the argument that Crosscountry want to use pricing to reduce demand on this route bizarre. The fastest trains Cheltenham to Birmingham are also the same ones doing Cheltenham to Bristol.

It is all about the DfT allowing Arriva to massively increase prices on routes they set the fares to. Cheltenham to Birmingham is just one of the most egregious examples.

You just answered your own point. The only reason the Cheltenham-Bristol fares arent the same is because XC don't price them! If they did then they would also be silly prices.

 

[geoffk]

Apparently XC also set fares from Cheltenham and Ashchurch to Worcester, despite not serving the latter. A quick check on-line showed Ashchurch - Worcester stations off-peak return £10.45. A similar ticket to Bristol is only £10, FOUR times the distance!

 

[yorkie]

XC abolished the day return; the Off Peak Return (SVR) is regulated. I'd it wasn't regulated it would be even higher. They are allowed to make this the cheapest option; no-one can make them have Day products or Super Off Peak products.

Their trains are usually full (except at the extremities of the day) even at off peak times, there are no other direct / viable alternative services, and the DfT require the franchise holder to put fares up as much as they can. So they do.

Some people want inconsistencies go be ironed out; if they got their way then Bristol to Cheltenham and a whole load of other tickets would be increased to be just as expensive as Cheltenham to Birmingham.

If XC had their way, they would price all the products on their route that are not currently set by them, and they would make them all much, much more expensive than at present.

If there is to be any reform of the fares system, the price of an off peak day trip from Cheltenham to Bristol (along with others eg. Sheffield to Derby) are among those that are under threat and I will be campaigning to not increase any more than by the rate of inflation. Some people really won't like me saying that, but I am sticking to it.