Chiltern Contactless Payment Trial

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barrykas

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Good afternoon,

Chiltern are trialling contactless payment for a limited range of tickets (Anytime Day Singles and Returns, Off-Peak Day Returns and Senior Railcard Singles and Off-Peak Day Returns) between Great Missenden and Marylebone.

Tickets appear to be issued by a modified Parkeon parking payment machine that's been installed at Great Missenden, and the trial is due to run until May.

Cheers,

Barry
 
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wintonian

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Interesting, does this TVM sell the full range of tickets and the usual discounts?

You wouldn't happen to have a pic of this swish new machine would you? :)
 

barrykas

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Interesting, does this TVM sell the full range of tickets and the usual discounts?

Just walk-up Singles and Returns from Missenden to Marylebone, and only Senior Railcard discounts for some strange reason.

You wouldn't happen to have a pic of this swish new machine would you? :)

Sadly the only picture I've seen is embedded in a PDF, I haven't seen the machine "in the flesh" yet.

Cheers,

Barry
 

maniacmartin

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Is this smartcard ticketing, or using using contactless credit card technology at the TVM?
 

barrykas

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Presumably a normal orange stock paper ticket is issued?

Nope. It's a paper "car park" style ticket, meaning you have to be let through the barrier at Marylebone...Though having asked around, nobody's actually seen one yet.

Is this smartcard ticketing, or using using contactless credit card technology at the TVM?

The latter, so it's just an alternative Method of Payment thus far.
 

wintonian

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Just walk-up Singles and Returns from Missenden to Marylebone, and only Senior Railcard discounts for some strange reason

I assume it is valid for BoJ at intermediate stations and staff are aware of this?

Are they aware of this at Baker Street? Considering as the tickets have validity between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Marylebone then they should be available for use on the inter-available routes - should they not?

I assume the answer to the later is no and that al sorts of problems will occur. <(
 

reb0118

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I wonder if the technology is there to allow "contactless payments" for on train purchases via Avantix? It would certainly speed up revenue collection on busy trains.
 

ainsworth74

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It's probably technically possible just not with the current generation of on train ticket issuing equipment. Though it would certainly be useful for buying tickets for local, low value, trips.
 

wintonian

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Wouldn't it just need a compatible reader, i.e. a chip & pin handset with an integrated reader?
 

wintonian

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But why would it need to go on-line if all its doing is reading the card and processing an off-line transaction? Isn't NFC in this sense just a more up-to date way of doing it compared to the chip/ mag strip?
 

IanXC

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But why would it need to go on-line if all its doing is reading the card and processing an off-line transaction? Isn't NFC in this sense just a more up-to date way of doing it compared to the chip/ mag strip?

Thats my understanding too. Contactless payments are done as offline authorisations - I've seen 10 days go by between visiting a M&S store and the transaction appearing on my statement.

As far as I am aware you can't have a contactless all authorise card.
 

Ediswan

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But why would it need to go on-line if all its doing is reading the card and processing an off-line transaction? Isn't NFC in this sense just a more up-to date way of doing it compared to the chip/ mag strip?

Not quite. Contactless payments currently have a £20 transaction limit, so they can only substitute for chip+pin/stripe up to that amount.

It looks like contactless payments can be made offline, but with a total expenditure limit on top of the transaction limit http://www.m6toll.co.uk/ways-to-pay/contactless-payment/

Sorry for swearing, but the M6 Toll page was the only reference I could find.
 

island

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A contactless card will also demand a chip & PIN transaction be made from time to time (limited number of transactions and money before it happens).
 

Deerfold

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A contactless card will also demand a chip & PIN transaction be made from time to time (limited number of transactions and money before it happens).

So they say, but I've made a couple of dozen transactions and haven't been asked for a PIN yet.

I thought I might get a request on my first transaction as it was for £19.99.

The staff at the shop I use tend to be fascinated as they say they've not had anyone else using it there.
 

island

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The limit will be set by the bank and may vary by customer. It will also reset whenever you do a normal Chip & PIN transaction, as the purpose of the limit is to prevent someone going on a shopping spree £20 at a time if you lose your card, and doing a PIN-verified transaction means you haven't lost your card.

If the very first transaction on your card is contactless it should fail and request a Chip & PIN transaction. But if you've done a normal Chip & PIN transaction (or ATM withdrawal, or PIN change) in the interim, that counts.
 

Deerfold

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The limit will be set by the bank and may vary by customer. It will also reset whenever you do a normal Chip & PIN transaction, as the purpose of the limit is to prevent someone going on a shopping spree £20 at a time if you lose your card, and doing a PIN-verified transaction means you haven't lost your card.

If the very first transaction on your card is contactless it should fail and request a Chip & PIN transaction. But if you've done a normal Chip & PIN transaction (or ATM withdrawal, or PIN change) in the interim, that counts.

Ah, I've probably only ever done one contactless transaction between PIN-authourised ones.
 

Deerfold

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But these are not offered.

No, I'm assuming sammyg901 is meaning that most purchases from the stations offering the trial will be travelcards - though I'm not sure if that will be the case. Obviously those wanting travelcards won't be able to use the contactless payment machines.
 

wintonian

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Which would be a good thing, as a phase 1 trial you want to keep it small and simple. You would expand to allow the purchase of all tickets from the involved station or you might limit it to point to point tickets and include additional stations in phase 2, either way I expect only tickets valid on the self contained bit of Chiltern (plus inter-available routes) to be sold.
 

Deerfold

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Which would be a good thing, as a phase 1 trial you want to keep it small and simple. You would expand to allow the purchase of all tickets from the involved station or you might limit it to point to point tickets and include additional stations in phase 2, either way I expect only tickets valid on the self contained bit of Chiltern (plus inter-available routes) to be sold.

Indeed - as once you get outside the Chiltern area you'd need agreement for everyone to take the funny tickets or some method of swapping them for proper stock - which may negate any time saved with the contactless payment method.
 

headshot119

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The limit will be set by the bank and may vary by customer. It will also reset whenever you do a normal Chip & PIN transaction, as the purpose of the limit is to prevent someone going on a shopping spree £20 at a time if you lose your card, and doing a PIN-verified transaction means you haven't lost your card.

If the very first transaction on your card is contactless it should fail and request a Chip & PIN transaction. But if you've done a normal Chip & PIN transaction (or ATM withdrawal, or PIN change) in the interim, that counts.

By very first you mean, the first ever transaction done on the card when you get it; I used mine contactless as I hadn't recieved the pin number and it worked fine.
 

wintonian

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By very first you mean, the first ever transaction done on the card when you get it; I used mine contactless as I hadn't recieved the pin number and it worked fine.

Same here so I presume island does indeed mean the very first use of the card be it oldish tech or new tech.
 

island

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Interesting. That ought not to work, but perhaps some banks have implemented it differently.
 

barrykas

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Having now paid a visit to Great Missenden, I'm in a position to provide photos of both the machine and a sample ticket.

As previously mentioned, it's a Parkeon Strada car park payment machine, with a software mod to offer train tickets. They haven't modified the pictograms above the buttons, however!

If you have a Senior Railcard, you need to press the yellow ("Information") button first, then you press the blue "Increase Time" button to select your ticket type, whether you've got a Railcard or not, and finally you press the Green "OK" button to confirm prior to touching your card to the reader.

The "target" area is rather narrow compared to most readers, and it took me a few attempts to persuade it to read my card, with the actual ticket being printed on thermal paper, as per a normal parking ticket.

The machine itself has been located on the Up platform, outside the Ticket Office, where the Permit to Travel machine used to be.

And now for the pictures, commencing with a view of the machine itself: http://www.flickr.com/photos/southie/8241114881

And now a closer view, note the reference to the NRCoC on the header panel: http://www.flickr.com/photos/southie/8242183860

And finally, a sample ticket produced by the machine: http://www.flickr.com/photos/southie/8241114657

Cheers,

Barry
 

wintonian

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One thing that worries me is that it is holders of Senior Railcards that are most likely to be confused by this and are I expect the least likely to want to use this method of payment or even to know that they have a contactless card.
 
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