Chiltern May 2011 Timetable

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barrykas

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Hi folks,

Spotted earlier that Chiltern have put out another draft timetable for consultation. Consultation closes 26th February.

Met Line times are much the same as now, but the Western has been completely recast to take advantage of the Mainline works (aka Evergreen 3 Phase 1).

The basic off-peak pattern from Marylebone will be:
  • xx.07 - Birmingham Snow Hill (Fast to High Wycombe, then Bicester North, Banbury, etc)
  • xx.10 - Bicester North/Banbury (Fast to High Wycombe)
  • xx.13 - Princes Risborough/Bicester North (Fast to Gerrards Cross)
  • xx.16 - High Wycombe
  • xx.37 - Birmingham Moor Street (Fast to Banbury)
  • xx.40 - Bicester North (Fast to Gerrards Cross, connects with Aylesbury shuttle at Princes Risborough)
  • xx.43 - High Wycombe

Cheers,

Barry
 
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route:oxford

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I see that Chiltern Railways will be operating the Bicester Shuttle from May. Can we expect to see ECS movements over the normally freight-only line between Bicester & Aylesbury Vale Parkway?

(When did the occasional direct service to/from Bicester to Paddington cease operating)
 

RPM

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Can we expect to see ECS movements over the normally freight-only line between Bicester & Aylesbury Vale Parkway?

I doubt it. There are only two or three Chiltern drivers who sign the road via Claydon. Its going to be Banbury drivers doing the Bicester Town workings so most likely the unit will come from Banbury.
 

Railjet

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Fastest journey times Moor St (dep 06:55) - Marylebone: 90 minutes, and Marylebone (dep 18:10) - Moor St: 91 minutes.

Not bad.
 
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If implemented, the May 2011 timetable will be a big improvement, notably providing a twice hourly service between the UK's two largest cities of around 1 h 50 mins.

Be interesting to see how many passengers switch from Virgin to Chiltern Railways. Journey times will be around 25 mins longer, but with a turn-and-go super off peak at £19.50 return, it's tempting to head to Marylebone rather than Euston. And I rather like the class 168 train. More leg room and bigger windows than the Pendelinos.
 

Flying Snail

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So the fastest Moor St-Marylebone service will take 90 mns, only 5 more than VWC. I know it is only one headline service but if they could run this hourly with significantly lower walk-up fares than Virgin it would have to be a huge success.

TBH I haven't understood why Chiltern have kept all their services standard class only considering the region they serve but if they don't introduce 1st on the fast Birminghams then it is just insane.

Is it known how many services will use 67+MkIII sets from May 11?
 

swt_passenger

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If implemented, the May 2011 timetable will be a big improvement, notably providing a twice hourly service between the UK's two largest cities of around 1 h 50 mins.

The timetable isn't likely to change much at all now, unless the infrastructure isn't ready. The main purpose of the consultation will be to do any last minute fine tuning, the consultation deadline is 24th Feb, which gives them only 2 days to finalise it before it has to be confirmed (at T-12) for the May 22nd change.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is it known how many services will use 67+MkIII sets from May 11?

They don't actaully need to use any extra LHCS until May 2013 when the line to Oxford is finished.
 

autotank

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There certainly used to be a through Paddington - Bicester Town service early in the morning as recently as November 2009. Now there is just a Didcot - Bicester working in the morning at 0709 which I don't imagine will be greatly missed. All the other services just run Oxford - Bicester I think. I assume Chiltern 165/0 staff and units will operate the sevice from May?

When will the line close for the upgrade work?
 

route:oxford

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So the fastest Moor St-Marylebone service will take 90 mns, only 5 more than VWC. I know it is only one headline service but if they could run this hourly with significantly lower walk-up fares than Virgin it would have to be a huge success.

So, the next question is...

What would it take on the part of

(a) Network Rail
or
(b) Chiltern Railways

to cut 6 minutes off the journey time?

Would an HST, Voyager or 180 offer significantly better acceleration to give Chiltern the headline morning fastest times into London on the National Rail Planner?
 

bengolding

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TBH I haven't understood why Chiltern have kept all their services standard class only considering the region they serve but if they don't introduce 1st on the fast Birminghams then it is just insane.

When Chiltern abolished First Class several years back, there was a bit of an outcry from Disgusted of Gerrards Cross/Beaconsfield, including some friends of mine I must add. However, it came to the point where First wasn't fully occupied yet Standard was full and standing and I think Chiltern made the right decision.

There must still be a potential for First as their route into Marylebone covers some of the most affluent towns in the country, but look at Virgin, who generally carry just fresh air in the 4 First Class carriages on the Pendolino between New St-Euston at off peak. For now, Chiltern have made the right choice with excellent comfortable trains. Perhaps when the 90 min journey time is well established, they can look to introduce a premium cabin to entice business from the WCML.
 

Bald Rick

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So, the next question is...

What would it take on the part of

(a) Network Rail
or
(b) Chiltern Railways

to cut 6 minutes off the journey time?

Would an HST, Voyager or 180 offer significantly better acceleration to give Chiltern the headline morning fastest times into London on the National Rail Planner?

19 minutes improvement required, the 0730 off New Street does it in 1h12. Electrification and 125mph throughout might just do it.
 

The Planner

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82 is the best they could get non-stop Moor St-Marylebone. A Voyager may take a minute off that.
 
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Perhaps when the 90 min journey time is well established, they can look to introduce a premium cabin to entice business from the WCML.

Chiltern Railways could do this.

Or they could promote their service and fares. In the evening peak, a turn-up-and go single is £49 on Virgin to Birmingham. Or you could save £17 by going from Marylebone instead, where your trip will be just 10-15 mins longer.
 

Chafford1

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If implemented, the May 2011 timetable will be a big improvement, notably providing a twice hourly service between the UK's two largest cities of around 1 h 50 mins.


The 37 minutes past the hour off peak service will take 100 minutes, the 07 with extra stops 108 minutes.
 
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Chiltern Railways is a success story, more frequent services, new rolling stock and now inter city type frequency and speed between London and Birmingham.

How much of this success is due to the lengthy of the franchise ? Evergreen 3 is costing £250 million and has produced a speedy service. And it will be funded from the Network Rail and Chiltern Railways. Then you look at the cost and financial mismangement of the WCML upgrade....
 

route:oxford

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I've just been checking out the options for me...

Living in Oxford, you'd logically think that Oxford station was the best station for me to catch a train into London from. For the last few years, the Chiltern service from Haddenham has had a definitive advantage in times, parking fee and fare - even with the 25m drive from East Oxford compared to the 12m drive to Oxford Station.

But with this new timetable...

I can realistically leave the house here at 07.35, catch the 08.03 from H&T and be at Charing X for 09.00!

To reach Charing X going via Oxford, I'd have to leave the house at 07.15, catch the 07.31 to Paddington.

It doesn't sound like much - but that's an extra 20 minutes in bed every morning!
 

bengolding

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Out of interest, does anyone have any info on what share of the market each of the three TOCs (VT, LM & Chiltern) get on the London-Birmingham corridor? VT recently did a publicity stunt of offering free taxis from Moor St to New St and allowing Chiltern tickets on their services.
 

jamaal

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Credit to Chiltern once again. It's becoming all too familiar, if you look at the complexity of their line in comparison to the WCML and what they have done, it's just amazing, they have nearly completed evergreen with no taxpayer money involved! Chiltern never cease to amaze me.

I wonder if the de-branded WSMR set will gain Chiltern vinyls.....

What's next to say but role on the 172s!
 

ainsworth74

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if you look at the complexity of their line in comparison to the WCML

How is the Chiltern Main Line more complex than WCML? The WCML has more operators, more trains, more services with more complex calling patterns (LM slows, VT fasts to name a few) as well as freight all mixed in together and many more routes merging and diverging from the mainline. I can't see how the Chiltern Main Line could come even close to that level of complexity. Kudos to Chiltern for what they've achieved on their patch but lets not blow things out of proportion.
 

tbtc

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How is the Chiltern Main Line more complex than WCML? The WCML has more operators, more trains, more services with more complex calling patterns (LM slows, VT fasts to name a few) as well as freight all mixed in together and many more routes merging and diverging from the mainline. I can't see how the Chiltern Main Line could come even close to that level of complexity. Kudos to Chiltern for what they've achieved on their patch but lets not blow things out of proportion.

Spot on (as usual)

South of Dorridge, Chiltern have a fairly "blank sheet of paper". Plus, with WMSR out of the way there are fewer non-Chiltern services on their patch too.

Chiltern have done brilliantly, but we need perspective
 

Chafford1

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Credit to Chiltern once again. It's becoming all too familiar, if you look at the complexity of their line in comparison to the WCML and what they have done, it's just amazing, they have nearly completed evergreen with no taxpayer money involved! Chiltern never cease to amaze me.

I wonder if the de-branded WSMR set will gain Chiltern vinyls.....

What's next to say but role on the 172s!


The first two Evergreen schemes were privately funded but the latest £250m Evergreen 3 scheme is being funded by Network Rail with Chiltern to repay over 30 years.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Spot on (as usual)

South of Dorridge, Chiltern have a fairly "blank sheet of paper". Plus, with WMSR out of the way there are fewer non-Chiltern services on their patch too.

Chiltern have done brilliantly, but we need perspective


Unfortunately the "blank sheet" covers a two track railway that will need to accommodate High Wycombe stoppers along with the accelerated Birmingham services. The 70 minute Warwick Parkway - Marylebone run on the morning 'headline' train will be a real challenge.
 

tbtc

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Unfortunately the "blank sheet" covers a two track railway that will need to accommodate High Wycombe stoppers along with the accelerated Birmingham services. The 70 minute Warwick Parkway - Marylebone run on the morning 'headline' train will be a real challenge.

There's a lot of competing needs to accommodate, sure, and personally I think Chiltern are concentrating too much on fast services to Birmingham (and tapping into the ORCATS money for Oxford in the near future) instead of the "core" market. However, they have the comparative luxury of being able to decide how to prioritise those services south of Dorridge, unlike Virgin who are sharing lines with LM/ XC/ ATW on their London - Birmingham service.
 

route:oxford

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Unfortunately the "blank sheet" covers a two track railway that will need to accommodate High Wycombe stoppers along with the accelerated Birmingham services. The 70 minute Warwick Parkway - Marylebone run on the morning 'headline' train will be a real challenge.

Are there still plans to quad-track through Gerrards Cross?

And are there any other opportunities on the Chiltern Mainline to return from double (and until recently single) track operations to 4 track?
 

swt_passenger

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Are there still plans to quad-track through Gerrards Cross?

Were there ever any actual plans? There was a short lived plan for an Up bay platform at Gerrards Cross but that's been reduced to an additional trailing crossover. AIUI that means that stopping services (using the new 172s) will be able to depart for London from the down platform at Gerrards Cross.

I believe the bay platform was binned because the timetable analysis found that the Ruislip loops allow for the intended service pattern in the peaks without it.

The Tesco tunnel was built to allow for four tracks, but that's not really the same as having plans for four tracks.


And are there any other opportunities on the Chiltern Mainline to return from double (and until recently single) track operations to 4 track?

Princed Risborough down platform is the obvious improvement that could be made, by removing the built out platform and reinstating the down loop. But under Evergreen 3 there will only ever be 4 or 5 tph through the station, so would it ever be needed?
 
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Daz28

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There's a lot of competing needs to accommodate, sure, and personally I think Chiltern are concentrating too much on fast services to Birmingham

I wish they were concentrating on fast services to Birmingham.

I'm a regular traveller from Marylebone to Solihull, with occasional trips on to Birmingham. The year before last, I would regularly get the 07.20 to Solihull, arriving 09.24. Then last year it was started earlier, at 07.15, to fit in some extra stops and work around a WSMR service, still arriving the same time, so it now takes 2hrs 9 mins to Solihull, 2hrs 19 to Moor Street.

What does the new timetable give me? A 07.24 departure arriving 09.24 Solihull, 9.34 Moor Street. So nine minutes quicker than the current timetable, but only four minutes quicker than it was a year ago.

The next service heading to Birmingham is not until 08:07, a gap of 43 minutes, arriving Moor Street 09:55 taking 1hr 48. My journey home (to London) is much improved in the evening, typically 20-30 minutes quicker. But for anyone travelling on business, needing to be in Birmingham or nearby for 9.30am, this timetable doesn't deliver what was promised.
 

tbtc

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I wish they were concentrating on fast services to Birmingham.

I'm a regular traveller from Marylebone to Solihull, with occasional trips on to Birmingham. The year before last, I would regularly get the 07.20 to Solihull, arriving 09.24. Then last year it was started earlier, at 07.15, to fit in some extra stops and work around a WSMR service, still arriving the same time, so it now takes 2hrs 9 mins to Solihull, 2hrs 19 to Moor Street.

What does the new timetable give me? A 07.24 departure arriving 09.24 Solihull, 9.34 Moor Street. So nine minutes quicker than the current timetable, but only four minutes quicker than it was a year ago.

The next service heading to Birmingham is not until 08:07, a gap of 43 minutes, arriving Moor Street 09:55 taking 1hr 48. My journey home (to London) is much improved in the evening, typically 20-30 minutes quicker. But for anyone travelling on business, needing to be in Birmingham or nearby for 9.30am, this timetable doesn't deliver what was promised.

That's a very interesting example, and something I wish planners considered. The railways seem to be convinced that "London" flows are more important than anything else, and that these flows are "to London" in the morning and "from London in the afternoon.

Logically, Birmingham is aa massive place, so you'd think there was demand for travel northbound in the morning, and that Solihull would be an important place for all Chiltern services to stop at (it was big enough for XC to serve hourly a few years ago), but...
 

Chafford1

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That's a very interesting example, and something I wish planners considered. The railways seem to be convinced that "London" flows are more important than anything else, and that these flows are "to London" in the morning and "from London in the afternoon.

Logically, Birmingham is aa massive place, so you'd think there was demand for travel northbound in the morning, and that Solihull would be an important place for all Chiltern services to stop at (it was big enough for XC to serve hourly a few years ago), but...

They do all stop at Solihull.
 

Daz28

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Spot on (as usual)

South of Dorridge, Chiltern have a fairly "blank sheet of paper". Plus, with WMSR out of the way there are fewer non-Chiltern services on their patch too.

Chiltern share their tracks with LM, Cross Country and FGW, plus there is a reasonable amount of freight. It is only the run into Marylebone where they truly have a blank sheet of paper, but even there the schedule has to consider London Underground on the Aylesbury service.

There are many TOCs who share with less.
 
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