Chiltern Railway - Provision of transport following a cancelled train

[MagisterLudi]

Good Afternoon

Some advice would be appreciated. Here's a brief version of my journey last Wednesday (24th January)

Departed 21:10 London Marylebone - Stourbridge Junction service. Train cancelled at Banbury due to the lack of a train manager. Boarded the following train as advised. Arrived Birmingham Snow Hill 23:50 (approx). Passengers were advised on the replacement train that a taxi service would be ready and would take passengers to their home addresses. Upon beginning the journey in the taxi, the driver refused and would only take me to Fiveways Train station claiming "they won't pay the company to take you any further". This led to a further 1 hour walk home due to public transport having stopped. 3 others passengers in the taxi and 1 other with a physical disability.

I advised the taxi driver I have Psoriatic Arthritis in my right knee so I am unable to walk properly and for a long distance since it exacerbates the condition. The journey should have taken 30 minutes - it took me 1 hour at 0*C temperature (measured on Snow Hill concourse) carrying a heavy travel case.

I've lodged this with Chiltern under Accessibility as well as Delay Repay. Any idea as to the duty of care the TOC has when it comes to provision of onward transport after delays to the journey?

All advice appreciated - hope this is posted in the right section.

Thanks in advance.

 

[najaB]

Any idea as to the duty of care the TOC has when it comes to provision of onward transport after delays to the journey?

The TOC has a legal obligation to get you to your destination station. If, however, the delay is such that other public transport is no longer running, then they have a moral obligation to get you to your actual destination. This could be by providing a taxi or reimbursing you the cost of a taxi, provided you can show a receipt.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Good Afternoon

Some advice would be appreciated. Here's a brief version of my journey last Wednesday (24th January)

Departed 21:10 London Marylebone - Stourbridge Junction service. Train cancelled at Banbury due to the lack of a train manager. Boarded the following train as advised. Arrived Birmingham Snow Hill 23:50 (approx). Passengers were advised on the replacement train that a taxi service would be ready and would take passengers to their home addresses. Upon beginning the journey in the taxi, the driver refused and would only take me to Fiveways Train station claiming "they won't pay the company to take you any further". This led to a further 1 hour walk home due to public transport having stopped. 3 others passengers in the taxi and 1 other with a physical disability.

I advised the taxi driver I have Psoriatic Arthritis in my right knee so I am unable to walk properly and for a long distance since it exacerbates the condition. The journey should have taken 30 minutes - it took me 1 hour at 0*C temperature (measured on Snow Hill concourse) carrying a heavy travel case.

I've lodged this with Chiltern under Accessibility as well as Delay Repay. Any idea as to the duty of care the TOC has when it comes to provision of onward transport after delays to the journey?

All advice appreciated - hope this is posted in the right section.

Thanks in advance.

They are certainly obliged to make reasonable efforts transport you to your destination, regardless of any disruption that occurs. The fact that they didn't feel like making adequate contractual arrangements with taxi contractors (e.g. prepayment in cash) is not your concern, and is wholly their fault.

You may see from a previous thread I posted that I have previously taken Chiltern to Court. This is a circumstance that similarly warrants severe action if they do not pay up rapidly.

I would expect them to offer you the usual delay compensation for the delay you experienced in reaching your destination (100% of a Single ticket or 50% of a Return ticket), as well as compensation to recognise their total and utter failure to provide a suitable replacement transport service.

Please keep up updated with what happens.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are certainly obliged to make reasonable efforts transport you to your destination, regardless of any disruption that occurs.

They are obliged to make reasonable efforts to transport you to your destination railway station as per your ticket or set of tickets held. Beyond that is not required (including not to a station to which a ticket is not yet held), though if the buses have long since finished to do so is good customer service, particularly where there would not be an abundance of taxis for you to pay for yourself for the last bit.

That said, occasionally you do miss the last bus and have to take a taxi - that's just life, and it's difficult to insist the railway covers consequential loss as where do you then stop?

That said, I'm slightly surprised the taxi driver didn't say "here's my control number, ring them and ask to book me to your destination" - perhaps he was outside of his licence area and thus not able to do that legally? (Not that legality bothers a lot of taxi drivers - many would have happily simply taken a cash in hand payment for the extra bit!)

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

They are obliged to make reasonable efforts to transport you to your destination railway station as per your ticket or set of tickets held. Beyond that is not required (including not to a station to which a ticket is not yet held), though if the buses have long since finished to do so is good customer service, particularly where there would not be an abundance of taxis for you to pay for yourself for the last bit.

That said, occasionally you do miss the last bus and have to take a taxi - that's just life, and it's difficult to insist the railway covers consequential loss as where do you then stop?

That said, I'm slightly surprised the taxi driver didn't say "here's my control number, ring them and ask to book me to your destination" - perhaps he was outside of his licence area and thus not able to do that legally? (Not that legality bothers a lot of taxi drivers - many would have happily simply taken a cash in hand payment for the extra bit!)

Yes, by destination I was referring to the railway station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, by destination I was referring to the railway station.

Chiltern of course did do this. The OP is complaining that the taxi did not also complete the bus journey, at Chiltern's cost, that was not possible as the buses had finished by then.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Chiltern of course did do this. The OP is complaining that the taxi did not also complete the bus journey, at Chiltern's cost, that was not possible as the buses had finished by then.

I don't think the OP has clarified what their destination was.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think the OP has clarified what their destination was.

From my reading it was somewhere about 30 minutes walk from Five Ways railway station, to which Chiltern did provide a taxi.

 

[bb21]

Good Afternoon

...

Thanks in advance.

Something doesn't sounds quite right to me here. Were there multiple taxis and were you all asked where you were going before getting into the taxi? Whereabouts was your destination?

Did anyone at any time take note of where everyone is going, either at the station or on the train?

I must say it sounds very odd for them to provide taxis, but not actually take customers to their ticketed destinations (or home addresses which I can well understand given the time of the day, but equally they have no obligation to). There must have been something lost in communication.

 

[etr221]

Two things strike me, that previous replies seem to have overlooked (1) Chiltern's 'on train' statement that taxis would take passengers to their home addresses and (2) Fiveways was not on the original train's route. Which makes me wonder if this is a case of the taxi trying to diddle Chiltern, by not providing the service that Chiltern contracted for...
(But further thought - where on the original train's route would be half to an hours walk from Fiveways?)

 

[MagisterLudi]

Thanks for the replies. To clarify:

1) My original destination was Birmingham Moor Street with a view to taking public transport to my home address in Edgbaston.

2) Other passengers on the service were advised that taxis would be provided at Birmingham Snow Hill to transport them to their home address due to a lack of public transport. They were advised that if they left the train at Moor Street then no onward transport would be provided.

3) There were numerous taxis and station staff identified mine as travelling to Edgbaston and other areas.

 

[MagisterLudi]

Thanks for the replies. To clarify:

1) My original destination was Birmingham Moor Street with a view to taking public transport to my home address in Edgbaston.

2) Other passengers on the service were advised that taxis would be provided at Birmingham Snow Hill to transport them to their home address due to a lack of public transport. They were advised that if they left the train at Moor Street then no onward transport would be provided.

3) There were numerous taxis and station staff identified mine as travelling to Edgbaston and other areas.

And the staff on board the train asked and took details of home addresses (areas).

 

[bb21]

I think in that case you are best to allow Chiltern to do some internal investigation first, as it does sound like either the taxi driver was pulling a fast one, or there were some sort of miscommunication between Chiltern and the taxi operator. If you give them 20 working days they should have in that case had enough time to investigate, and you can decide what further actions to take.

Other than that it isn't really possible for any of us to say much more.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And the staff on board the train asked and took details of home addresses (areas).

That does rather sound like a stuff-up, then, if they offered a taxi *home* (they don't have to, but nonetheless they did). Worth a complaint.

 

[island]

The TOC has an obligation to get you to your destination train station as per your ticket. Your ticketed destination was Birmingham Stations and you were taken there by train. That extinguishes any further liability to transport you.

I note that Chiltern apparently unilaterally promised to pay for further transportation to the OP’s final and non-railway destination, which apparently did not work out. This is not part of any contractual obligation to the OP as no consideration was given for it, therefore no entitlement to compensation arises therefrom.

Chiltern does not operate DelayRepay but it should be possible to claim under its Passenger Charter scheme for a delay of 30-59 minutes (based on arrival time at Birmingham) as non-availability of train staff is within the control of the train company.

An ex gratia gesture in respect of not delivering on the promise to take you to Edgbaston might be appropriate.

 

[island]

That said, I'm slightly surprised the taxi driver didn't say "here's my control number, ring them and ask to book me to your destination"

As am I, and equally that none of the passengers proposed that as an option.

 

[MagisterLudi]

As am I, and equally that none of the passengers proposed that as an option.

There was an especially agitated passenger in the taxi who had already flared up at the station staff when we changed trains. The taxi driver was adamant he was taking us no further and so the opportunity to ask him to travel further out of his way in return for me paying for the journey home did not appear especially wise or viable.

 

[MagisterLudi]

Thanks for the assistance. I will report back when I have a response.

 

[NSB2017]

So a lot of this may have been caused by an abusive passenger? If the taxi driver felt threatened, I’m sure he’s well within his rights to ditch passengers anywhere.

 

[MagisterLudi]

The passenger in question had been confrontational at a station, not in the taxi. The assessment of the prudence of asking them to travel to a different station was my judgement, no one else's.

 

[Llanigraham]

The passenger in question had been confrontational at a station, not in the taxi. The assessment of the prudence of asking them to travel to a different station was my judgement, no one else's.

As said, I don't know what "rules" Birmingham City Council have about aggressive or threatening passengers, but if the driver had seen the confrontation at the station it is possible that he could have thought that it might continue in his cab, and that the perpetrator was a member of a group.
I think this "case" shows the problem of not booking individual cabs for people, but grouping them into (probable) drop-off points, however I also see the economic value of doing so.
And I think more confusion has arisen about what was booked, as you have stated Taxi, for which there are specific and legal rules. If it was a Private Hire Vehicle, so unmetered, things are a lot more "free" and not so highly controlled.

 

[bb21]

I think the discussion about the differences between taxis and PHV's are worth having, but probably in a different thread.

That probably detracts from the core issue discussed in this thread.

 

[MagisterLudi]

Received a response from Chiltern. The upshot is that at no point was transport to a home address requested for passengers thus they were right to drop me at Fiveways. Ending with the usual "There seems to have been a break down in communication somewhere and I'm sorry if you were given the wrong information."

I've been refunded part of the ticket cost for the delay.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Received a response from Chiltern. The upshot is that at no point was transport to a home address requested for passengers thus they were right to drop me at Fiveways. Ending with the usual "There seems to have been a break down in communication somewhere and I'm sorry if you were given the wrong information."

I've been refunded part of the ticket cost for the delay.

That doesn't sound massively unreasonable an outcome, really.

 

[duncanp]

Whereabouts in Edgbaston were you headed to?

National Express West Midlands service 9 has departures from Colmore Row (close to Snow Hill Station) to Stourbridge at 00:20 and 01:00.

This gravely along the Hagley Road via Edgbaston, Bearwood and Quinton.

Although I realise that getting on a bus at midnight may not be the most attractive option, or that this route may not have been suitable.

 

[gray1404]

Can I just check, was Fiveways you final train station destination or was it somewhere else? If it was indeed Fiveways then you were right to be taken there, if not then what station was your intended destination?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Can I just check, was Fiveways you final train station destination or was it somewhere else? If it was indeed Fiveways then you were right to be taken there, if not then what station was your intended destination?

OP has stated they intended to travel by train to Moor Street and take alternative public transport home. Chiltern met this obligation and the OP has also been refunded part of their ticket costs under the passenger charter for their delay.

Can't say it's an unreasonable outcome.

 

[gray1404]

Thanks for confirming. Yes, its is a reasonable outcome. It really is a shame though that the OP was misinformed on the night and it must have been distressing being dropped at a different station when this is not what they were expecting.