Chiltern Railways - first class accommodation?

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All Line Rover

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I was under the impression that Chiltern Railways does not offer first class accommodation, except a 'Business Zone' on a small number of trains between Birmingham and Marylebone.

Would anyone therefore be able to explain why every train between Banbury and Marylebone - including those which start/terminate at Banbury - have first class accommodation (according to National Rail Enquiries) for which first class tickets are sold?

Also, much as Chiltern is praised for having low fares, £13.1k for a Travelcard? They're having a laugh! Portsmouth to Waterloo (same distance) is £9.4k. Even Rugby to Euston (a considerably longer distance but a faster journey, on better and longer electric trains and with a complimentary breakfast and dinner every weekday) is 'only' £13.7k.
 
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HWLad

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Are you sure it is Banbury to Marylebone as opposed to Banbury to London Terminals? GWR operate First Class between Banbury and Paddington.
 

jopsuk

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I think you've confused here between it showing that there's a fare available and what the trains convey. It shows there's first class fares available because, as HWLad notes, Banbury-London Terminals is also served by GWR with services that do convey 1st class. NRE shows all valid tickets. Even though the Chiltern services don't have 1st class, a 1st class ticket is valid on them.

As a different example, in Scotland between Edinburgh and Stirling there's only two services* a day that have 1st class on them- the VTEC services. But NRE and other ticket sites will offer a 1st class ticket for all the other services, run by ScotRail, because it is valid.

Thinking of moving and scoping out the commuting options for a change from VWC?


*I can see the pedants raising their hand to interject. But a ticket from Edinburgh to Stirling isn't valid on the Caledonian Sleeper, so for out purposes it doesn't count. Pipe down.
 

Kite159

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I think you've confused here between it showing that there's a fare available and what the trains convey. It shows there's first class fares available because, as HWLad notes, Banbury-London Terminals is also served by GWR with services that do convey 1st class. NRE shows all valid tickets. Even though the Chiltern services don't have 1st class, a 1st class ticket is valid on them.

As a different example, in Scotland between Edinburgh and Stirling there's only two services* a day that have 1st class on them- the VTEC services. But NRE and other ticket sites will offer a 1st class ticket for all the other services, run by ScotRail, because it is valid.

Thinking of moving and scoping out the commuting options for a change from VWC?

*I can see the pedants raising their hand to interject. But a ticket from Edinburgh to Stirling isn't valid on the Caledonian Sleeper, so for out purposes it doesn't count. Pipe down.

Not to mention that you will be entitled to 1st class on the half hourly XC service to Reading (which are a tad more frequent than the GW services), then onwards Paddington on a GW service.
 

All Line Rover

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I think you've confused here between it showing that there's a fare available and what the trains convey.

According to NRE the Chiltern services convey first class accommodation (attachments provided). Also the case according to WebTIS, trainline, etc.
 

Attachments

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All Line Rover

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Thinking of moving and scoping out the commuting options for a change from VWC?

Banbury to Marylebone is 69 miles. It could also be compared with Peterborough to Kings Cross (88 miles - £13.5k for East Coast and £11.5k for trains equivalent to those operated by Chiltern), or Wellingborough to St Pancras (65 miles - £12.1k).

GWR shall not be referred to, but I note that the Banbury to London 1ST Travelcard is priced by Chiltern, not GWR.
 

HWLad

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I think there is just a fault with the system. Obviously if you know that Chiltern is a standard only railway, you wouldn't get the first class ticket.

I think the seating you get on a 168 is better than First Class on a 166 or equivalent anyway that would be the alternative. Given it terminates at Banbury, it is probably a 165 (without checking!) though.
 

bb21

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There's nothing stopping Chiltern pricing a fare for a class of accommodation they do not offer themselves.
 

IanXC

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There's nothing stopping Chiltern pricing a fare for a class of accommodation they do not offer themselves.

Quite, as another examples there are plenty of flows with 1st class tickets priced by Northern too.
 

CyrusWuff

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Looking at the relevant table in the eNRT, none of the Chiltern services are shown as conveying First Class accommodation, and services with a trolley service or Business Zone (which I'd expect to see marked as conveying a buffet) aren't indicated, but the gremlins have definitely paid a visit as the 1630 to High Wycombe (which I believe is a pair of 165s) is shown as having a buffet!

A look at RTT, on the other hand, shows most Chiltern services as having First Class, so I'm guessing an error's slipped in somewhere between the export for the eNRT occurring and the timetable going live...maybe.
 

Deepgreen

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I think you've confused here between it showing that there's a fare available and what the trains convey. It shows there's first class fares available because, as HWLad notes, Banbury-London Terminals is also served by GWR with services that do convey 1st class. NRE shows all valid tickets. Even though the Chiltern services don't have 1st class, a 1st class ticket is valid on them.

As a different example, in Scotland between Edinburgh and Stirling there's only two services* a day that have 1st class on them- the VTEC services. But NRE and other ticket sites will offer a 1st class ticket for all the other services, run by ScotRail, because it is valid.

Thinking of moving and scoping out the commuting options for a change from VWC?


*I can see the pedants raising their hand to interject. But a ticket from Edinburgh to Stirling isn't valid on the Caledonian Sleeper, so for out purposes it doesn't count. Pipe down.

To be pedantic - you can't see them on an on-line forum, and if they are raising their hands they would be plural. There - hope that helps!
 

Starmill

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I think people talking about who prices what tickets and other operators have rather... missed the point.

The problem is simple, Chiltern's own website says their trains convey First Class when actually they don't! This isn't the kind of mistake that ought to be allowed to happen - and nor is it the first time.

Capture.PNG
Screenshot shows the Chiltern website with the 1655 Chiltern Railways service from Birmingham Moor Street to London Marylebone with First & Standard Class Accommodation.
 
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WestCoast

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All Chiltern accommodation is akin to first class when compared to other operators in the area.
 

Starmill

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I couldn't possibly agree. I've made two journeys from London to Oxford now on a Chiltern 165. A Great Western HST or 180 is, in my opinion, superior.
 

WestCoast

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I couldn't possibly agree. I've made two journeys from London to Oxford now on a Chiltern 165. A Great Western HST or 180 is, in my opinion, superior.

Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of GWR on the Birmingham to London corridors, unless the long way via Worcester and Evesham is taken. In a choice between LM's cramped 350s (especially 350/2s), Virgin's 390s which make me feel dizzy and Chiltern's 168s/Silver sets, I always try to opt for Chiltern. The Silver sets are quite possibly one of the nicest experiences on the entire rail network, in my opinion.
 
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kieron

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I think people talking about who prices what tickets and other operators have rather... missed the point.
I worry that you may have missed the fact that two different (and largely unconnected) points were made in the original post.
The problem is simple, Chiltern's own website says their trains convey First Class when actually they don't! This isn't the kind of mistake that ought to be allowed to happen
At worst, I see it as an error which should be corrected within a couple of days once someone reports it to the company. What steps do you feel Chiltern should have taken to ensure that this could never happen?
 
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Starmill

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Given this type of error is very rare, I'd be happy if they managed their data feed effectively as other TOCs do. It's particularly rare on such a large scale, which implies something fairly serious going wrong more than once.
 
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