Chiltern RPOs in action at High Wycombe

[Jamiescott1]

For the past few weeks there has been 2 revenue protection officers at the exit at high wycombe station during peak times.
Theres also a poster in the station thanking people for showing their ticket when requested.

Has wycombe been highlighted as a particular problem area or is it a chiltern wide clamp down

 

[LordFlashheart]

They've also been all over the Met. like a rash for the last few weeks

presumably they need every penny they can get to mend all their broken stock (11% OOU according to them

 

[CarltonA]

There seem to be a few evaders trying it on at High Wycombe, I saw one getting nabbed a few weeks ago. There seems also to be an issue with people trying to tap out with their Oyster cards well outside London. One man presented an Oyster to an inspector in the Princes Risborough area earlier this week.

 

[Monty]

There seem to be a few evaders trying it on at High Wycombe, I saw one getting nabbed a few weeks ago. There seems also to be an issue with people trying to tap out with their Oyster cards well outside London. One man presented an Oyster to an inspector in the Princes Risborough area earlier this week.

Thats nothing, I still get passengers (admittedly most of them are tourists) presenting Oystercards for their journey to Basingstoke, even had one on his merry way to Southampton.

 

[Mikey C]

Thats nothing, I still get passengers (admittedly most of them are tourists) presenting Oystercards for their journey to Basingstoke, even had one on his merry way to Southampton.

Bit puzzled if tourists are going to Basingstoke!

 

[Monty]

Bit puzzled if tourists are going to Basingstoke!

Makes two of us, but here we are. Had about half a dozen of them over the past 6 months.

 

[bionic]

I met a bloke in a pub in Warwick once who claimed to commute to Marylebone every day on a ticket between Warwick and Banbury with some other local journey fiddle involved at the London end. He said it was common knowledge there were no on train ticket checks after Banbury so you just needed some way of getting out at Marylebone and you could do the commute for peanuts. He told me half of Warwick was doing it!

 

[Tom Quinne]

Short seasons are common, short local trip at the start with another at the end to get out.

If you get away with it a dozens times a month, then get caught it likely you’ll of saved the cost of any fine so your still up on what you should of paid.

It’s quite common on very busy peak hour trains or DOO trains where passengers know a ontrain ticket check is rare to not a chance.

 

[Mag_seven]

Short seasons are common, short local trip at the start with another at the end to get out.

If you get away with it a dozens times a month, then get caught it likely you’ll of saved the cost of any fine so your still up on what you should of paid.

It’s quite common on very busy peak hour trains or DOO trains where passengers know a ontrain ticket check is rare to not a chance.

Surely the TOC would become suspicious when their records show that season tickets have been issued to the same person at opposite ends of the line?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Surely the TOC would become suspicious when their records show that season tickets have been issued to the same person at opposite ends of the line?

Are records issued at different stations linked? Last time I worked in a ticket office we still had cardboard record cards, so I don't know how linked computerised records are.
But then you'd just need to buy different seasons from different TOCs with different photocards - or even the one at the London end buy from LU.

 

[yorkie]

Short seasons are common, short local trip at the start with another at the end to get out.

If you get away with it a dozens times a month, then get caught it likely you’ll of saved the cost of any fine so your still up on what you should have paid.

Are you sure? If a passenger was caught doing this they would surely be prosecuted, in which case the fine would be several hundreds of pounds, plus a criminal record!

You may be thinking of something else, such as:
https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/sites/default/files/files/timetables/Chiltern Penalty Fares v2.pdf

A Penalty Fare is charge that Chiltern Railways is allowed to make under the Penalty Fares Rules 2002. It is not a fine and anyone who is charged one is not being accused of avoiding or attempting to avoid, paying their fare..."

...which would not be an appropriate course of action if someone was caught doing what you describe.

It’s quite common on very busy peak hour trains or DOO trains where passengers know a ontrain ticket check is rare to not a chance.

I don't know about that! The trains I most often get checks on are the DOO trains in the Glasgow area; this is in sharp contrast to rarely getting my tickets checked on TPE/Northern these days. I don't see how the operation of the train makes any difference.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

If a passenger was caught doing this they would surely be prosecuted, in which case the fine would be several hundreds of pounds, plus a criminal record!

This case, also Chiltern
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37494501

Fare-dodging barrister Peter Barnett struck off

A lawyer who commuted by train for two years without paying has been disbarred.

Dr Peter Barnett, 44, used an Oyster card to avoid paying the full fare for his journey from Oxford to London.

The barrister was given a suspended prison sentence last September after he admitted failing to pay for journeys on 655 days.

A Bar Standards Board (BSB) tribunal said Barnett's "dishonest conduct" was incompatible with membership.

Barnett travelled from Haddenham and Thame Parkway to London Marylebone, but claimed his journey began at Wembley.

He admitted fraud by false representation and was given a suspended 16-week prison sentence.

The Oxford graduate and former Rhodes scholar failed to pay for journeys on Chiltern Railways on 655 days between April 2012 and November 2014, City of London Magistrates' Court heard in September 2015.

It was thought he "tapped out" with an Oyster card, automatically being charged the maximum Transport for London fare rather than a rail fare.

Barnett did not hold a practising certificate as a barrister in England and Wales but was Called to the Bar at Lincoln's Inn in 2007, the BSB said.

He was a qualified solicitor in England and Wales and in New South Wales, Australia where the relevant regulators have been informed of the tribunal's decision.

Chiltern Railways had argued he should pay back nearly £20,000 in lost fares but the defence said the true value was £6,000 which he was ordered to pay back.

Barnett was also ordered to carry out 200 hours of unpaid work and be supervised for 12 months.

That he could do so for two years without apparently meeting a ticket inspection on the train does suggest their infrequency.

 

[yorkie]

That he could do so for two years without apparently meeting a ticket inspection on the train ...

Possibly but not necessarily; we don't know enough information about the case.

...does suggest their infrequency.

Yes ticket checks on board many Chiltern services are not as common as they perhaps should be; this contrasts with the Glasgow area trains where barrier checks are rare but on train checks are extremely common.

 

[grumblingalong]

Makes two of us, but here we are. Had about half a dozen of them over the past 6 months.

Does it have a particularly nice cathedral...?

 

[Monty]

Does it have a particularly nice cathedral...?

Well there is the Holy Ghost ruins, which is an old church dating back to Norman times. But there are plenty of Norman ruins and preserved castles in the South so can't imagine people making a specific trip for it..

 

[island]

Surely the TOC would become suspicious when their records show that season tickets have been issued to the same person at opposite ends of the line?

The person could buy the season tickets from two different TOCs. They do not talk to one another.

 

[Meerkat]

Are you sure? If a passenger was caught doing this they would surely be prosecuted, in which case the fine would be several hundreds of pounds, plus a criminal record!

I would assume if you get caught you claim lost ticket, too late to get ticket rather than show them a short season (I fell asleep is only real defence if they look at your ST). I assume the barrister got busted via Oyster records, but how did they know to look for repeat offending?

 

[Haywain]

I would assume if you get caught you claim lost ticket, too late to get ticket rather than show them a short season (I fell asleep is only real defence if they look at your ST). I assume the barrister got busted via Oyster records, but how did they know to look for repeat offending?

Very simple really - they take the customer’s details and the check their season ticket database and see what he’s been buying.

 

[JonathanH]

The trains I most often get checks on are the DOO trains in the Glasgow area

The Strathclyde staffing agreements on DOO trains basically mean a ticket examiner on every train whose only role is to check and issue tickets. They are basically conductors.

There is no other part of the country with this kind of arrangement although I note that Northern and Great Western in the West area do now roster more than one member of staff to trains at some times of the day.

The operators in the South East with DOO services work on the premise of small RPI teams and the fact that long crowded trains are difficult to inspect anyway so inspection of tickets is relatively rare supported by ticket gates.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Before chiltern introduced smart card tickets I'd often see people at marylebone using a contactless card to exit the barriers (train did not stop at any oyster card stations). I always assumed they were paying minimum oyster contactless fare to save a few quid


Once in ten years of commuting to marylebone has someone manually checked all tickets after going through the barriers. They did a big operation with Member of staff at each exit barrier (about ten set to exit)

 

[Tom Quinne]

Are you sure? If a passenger was caught doing this they would surely be prosecuted, in which case the fine would be several hundreds of pounds, plus a criminal record!

You may be thinking of something else, such as:
https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/sites/default/files/files/timetables/Chiltern Penalty Fares v2.pdf

...which would not be an appropriate course of action if someone was caught doing what you describe.


I don't know about that! The trains I most often get checks on are the DOO trains in the Glasgow area; this is in sharp contrast to rarely getting my tickets checked on TPE/Northern these days. I don't see how the operation of the train makes any difference.

14 years as a guard along the West Coast southern end into London I saw it a lot.

Watford to Bushey, then a Queens Park to Euston etc.

The St Albans Branch was chronic for it as you only had one guard on a four car train with no GOPS.

 

[JonathanH]

I met a bloke in a pub in Warwick once who claimed to commute to Marylebone every day on a ticket between Warwick and Banbury with some other local journey fiddle involved at the London end. He said it was common knowledge there were no on train ticket checks after Banbury so you just needed some way of getting out at Marylebone and you could do the commute for peanuts. He told me half of Warwick was doing it!

It's very difficult to see what Chiltern could do about this on their Birmingham services - a guard is aboard the train from Banbury north who checks all tickets - south of there the train is DOO and might stop only at Bicester or High Wycombe - the RPI might check all tickets in a matter of minutes and then have nothing to do which rather defeats the staff cost saving of DOO.

I wonder if having specific gate lines for particular platforms at Marylebone might be better than one single line - they could then be set to only accept tickets to the stations beyond the first stop of that train.

Moderator note: to discuss this suggestion further please use this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...rate-gatelines-to-reduce-short-faring.193440/

 

[yorkie]

Short seasons are common, short local trip at the start with another at the end to get out... .

The St Albans Branch was chronic for it as you only had one guard on a four car train with no GOPS.

very rare for ticket inspections to occur on that route!

I'm surprised anyone does that on the Abbey line though; surely they would just have a season for the Watford Junction end of the route? Why would they bother with one from Abbey to Park Street?

 

[Kite159]

It's very difficult to see what Chiltern could do about this on their Birmingham services - a guard is aboard the train from Banbury north who checks all tickets - south of there the train is DOO and might stop only at Bicester or High Wycombe - the RPI might check all tickets in a matter of minutes and then have nothing to do which rather defeats the staff cost saving of DOO.

I wonder if having specific gate lines for particular platforms at Marylebone might be better than one single line - they could then be set to only accept tickets to the stations beyond the first stop of that train.

Even north of Banbury you can escape checks if the service is formed of multiple units as in my experience the guard tends to do in the rear unit.

Although these days the barriers at both Birmingham stations are manned from first to last train.

When its a single unit then you normally get checked on the long run between Banbury & Leamington

 

[JonathanH]

Even north of Banbury you can escape checks if the service is formed of multiple units as in my experience the guard tends to do in the rear unit.

The guard can fairly easily switch units at the various stations between Banbury and Birmingham. A bit more difficult for an RPI further south.

 

[yorkie]

Although these days the barriers at both Birmingham stations are manned from first to last train.

is that a very new thing? I've never seen the barriers in use at Moor Street late evening, and my last trip was only a couple of months ago.

 

[iainbhx]

Although these days the barriers at both Birmingham stations are manned from first to last train.

This isn't the case at Moor Street, I assure you.

I arrive at Moor Street at 06:48 most mornings and the barriers are open, I can count the number of times they are shut this year on one hand. I get a train back usually around 18:10-18:30 and the barriers are usually open.

 

[londonbridge]

As posted in several previous threads, in one of my former jobs a colleague used to do East Croydon-Clapham Junction-Kingston with a 5/6 travelcard. He was never caught.

 

[paul1609]

The Strathclyde staffing agreements on DOO trains basically mean a ticket examiner on every train whose only role is to check and issue tickets. They are basically conductors.

There is no other part of the country with this kind of arrangement although I note that Northern and Great Western in the West area do now roster more than one member of staff to trains at some times of the day.

The operators in the South East with DOO services work on the premise of small RPI teams and the fact that long crowded trains are difficult to inspect anyway so inspection of tickets is relatively rare supported by ticket gates.

Thats not really true on the Southern services that went DOO after the dispute. I only travel off peak across country on Southern now but Id say there's a 75%+ chance of an onboard ticket check now from the OBS.

 

[JonathanH]

Thats not really true on the Southern services that went DOO after the dispute. I only travel off peak across country on Southern now but Id say there's a 75%+ chance of an onboard ticket check now from the OBS.

Yes, but Southern haven't extended the OBS concept to their other routes that were already DOO and inspection within the travel travelcard area tends to be quite rare even from OBS. The Strathclyde TEs tend to be active throughout the journey including in the central area.