China HSR

[LucaZone]

Any ideas what the train on the left is? Not see that before.

 

[j0hn0]

I'll take a punt on a Bombardier Zefiro

 

[jopsuk]

Just looked at the wikipedia entry for those- 250km/h, 16 carriage SLEEPER trains?

At that speed, you could easily wake up 1000 miles from where you went to bed. Nice.

 

[Harry Douthwaite]

Just looked at the wikipedia entry for those- 250km/h, 16 carriage SLEEPER trains?

At that speed, you could easily wake up 1000 miles from where you went to bed. Nice.

That's the whole idea... London Kings Cross to Beijing in 48 hours by train... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-two-days-on-new-high-speed-rail-network.html

This is gonna be truly historic - an inter-continental high speed railway! 10 years and counting...

 

[bcat]

Any ideas what the train on the left is? Not see that before.

The train on the left is CRH1E, currently serves Beijing-Shanghai over night route and perhaps some other routes. The train on the right is a later version of CRH2, should not be a CRH2A, but it is not easy to figure out which type of CRH2 it is from the angle.

 

[90019]

nvm

 

[upnorth71]

CRH1E sleeper train at Beijing South Sta:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N0x8uG-k24&feature=related

Long (16 cars!) CRH2E (sleeper) train at same location:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuouHj5Z1tE&feature=related

 

[oldshutterbug]

Doesn't seem that long ago since the Chinese were pulling Rickshaws my how time changes.

 

[greenlion]

CRH1 Series

derived from Bombardier Regina, Manufacturer by Bombardier Sifang (Qingdao) Transportation Ltd. (BST)

CRH1A: 8 cars per trainset, maximum speed 200km/h,first opend at Feburary 1, 2007, between Guangzhou - Shenzhen, currently 50 trainsets on service

CRH1B: 16 cars per trainset , maximum speed 250km/h,first opend at April 2009, between Shanghai - Nanjing, & South Shanghai - Hangzhou, currently 20 trainsets on service

CRH1E: 16 cars per trainset , maximum speed 250km/h,first opend at November 4 2009, between Beijing - Shanghai, currently 20 trainsets on service
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

CRH2 Series

derived from E2 Series 1000 Shinkansen, Manufacturer by Sifang Locomotive and Rolling Stock

CRH2A: 8 cars per trainset, maximum speed 250km/h,first opend at January 28, 2007, between Shanghai - Hangzhou, currently 60 trainsets on service

CRH2B: 16 cars per trainset , maximum speed 250km/h,first opend at August 1 2008, between Hefei - Ningbo, currently 10 trainsets on service

CRH2C Stage one: 8 cars per trainset , maximum speed 350km/h,first opend at August 1 2008, between Beijing - Tianjin, currently 30 trainsets on service

CRH2C Stage two: 8 cars per trainset , maximum speed 350km/h,first opend at February 2010, between Zhengzhou - Xi'an, currently 30 trainsets on service, the new series CRH2-380 isderived from CRH2C Stage two

CRH2E: 16 cars per trainset , maximum speed 250km/h,first opend at December 21 2008, between Beijing - Shanghai & Beijing - Hangzhou, currently 20 trainsets on service
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

CRH3 Series

derived from Siemens Velaro, Manufacturer at Tangshan Railway Vehicle

CRH3C: 8 cars per trainset, maximum speed 350km/h,first opend at August 1, 2008, between Beijing - Tianjin, currently 60 trainsets on service, planed to have 186 trainsets
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

CRH5 Series

derived from Alstom Pendolino ETR600, Manufacturer by Changchun Railway Vehicles Co., Ltd

CRH5A: 8 cars per trainset, maximum speed 250km/h,first opend at July 1, 2008, between Beijing - Tianjin, currently 69 trainsets on service
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

CRH1-380 Series

Manufacturer by Bombardier Sifang (Qingdao) Transportation Ltd.

CRH1-380A, also named Zefiro 380, formerly known as CRH1C & CRH1D, 8 cars per trainset , maximum speed 380km/h, Will be on service at 2012, planned to manufacture 20 trainsets

CRH1-380B, 16 cars per trainset , maximum speed 380km/h, planned to manufacture 16 trainsets

CRH2-380 Series

Manufacturer by Sifang Locomotive and Rolling Stock

CRH2-380A, Based on CRH2C stage two, 8 cars per trainset , maximum speed 380km/h, the first CRH2-380A will be completed by August 2010, planned to manufacture 60 trainsets

CRH2-380B, 16 cars per trainset , maximum speed 380km/h, planned to manufacture 140 trainsets
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

CRH3-380 Series

Manufacturer byt Tangshan Railway Vehicle & Changchun Railway Vehicles Co., Ltd

CRH3-380A, Formerly known as CRH3D, based on CRH3C, 16 cars per trainset , maximum speed 380km/h, the first CRH3-380A completed by May 27 2010, planned to manufacturer 100 trainsets
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Some of the old high-railway trains, AKA runs as "EXPERSS" at a speed of 180 to 200 km/h between late 1990s' and early 2000s'

CRH6 - NDJ3 - "GREATWALL"
Beijing - Yanqing (Open at 2008 ), Shijiazhuang - Qinhuangdao (open at 2009).

designed for running at 160 km/h, Top speed 200 km/h.

CBS - Changbai Mountain
Shenyang - Dalian (Open at 2007)

designed for running at 210 km/h, Top speed 250 km/h.

XF - Forward
Chengdu - Chongqing (Open at 2007)

designed for running at 200 km/h, Top speed 292 km/h.

DJJ1 - "Blue Arrow", Guangzhou - Shenzhen (Opens 2001, retire at 2007, now move to Shaoguan - Pingshi)

designed for running at 200 km/h, Top speed 236 km/h.


X2000 - Epoch Speed
opens at Guangzhou - Jiulong line in 1998 at 200km/h, retire in 2007,replaced by CRH1

DDJ1 - Great White Shark
Opens at Guangzhou -Shenzhen line in 1998 at 200 km/h, retire at 2001, replaced by Blue Arrow

DJJ2 - China Star
Runs between Shenyang - Shanhaiguan, opens at 2005 at 270km/h retire at 2007

DJF1 - Zhongyuan Star
Opens at Zhengzhou - Wuchan in 2001 at speed 160km/h, retired at 2007

NZJ1 - New First Light
Opens at Nanjing - Hangzhou & Shanghai -Nanjing in 1999 at speed 180 km/h, retire at 2007, now running ta Harbin - Qiqihar line at a speed of 160 km/h

NZJ2 - Shenzhou
nickname "Great White Cat", opens at Beijing - Tianjin in 2000, retire at 2007, now running between Guilin - Nanjing - Liuzhou & Nanchang - Wuchang, Chibi - huangshi, top speed 180 km/h

 

[bcat]

CRH6 - NDJ3 - "GREATWALL"
Beijing - Yanqing (Open at 2008 ), Shijiazhuang - Qinhuangdao (open at 2009).

There's no "CRH6". It's just "NDJ3", or "Harmony Great Wall"

 

[greenlion]

There's no "CRH6". It's just "NDJ3", or "Harmony Great Wall"

although it is not a CRH Series Train, It's still named under CRH

http://www.trainfanz.com/trains_diesel_locomotive-frame-3-Hexiechangcheng.htm

by the way, according to this site, Nickname of the CRH Series are

http://baike.sytlw.com/index.php?doc-view-150.html

CRH1 - Cakebread
CRH2 - Hairtail
CRH3 - White Mouse
CRH5 - Little 5

 

[bcat]

although it is not a CRH Series Train, It's still named under CRH

No. The Chinese word "Hexiehao" or "Dongchezu" is not an equivalence of "CRH".

 

[EWS 58038]

Seeing all the pictures I do get the feeling they just bought whatever was on the market and could be there soon.

Officially to introduce HST's to the public very fast.
Unofficially to just copy/past it and offer their cheap labour trains to European and Americal TOC's in a few years time.

Thank you Siemans and Alstom for the technology.

 

[greenlion]

China High Speed Rail Map

here are the fastest average operating speed of China HSR

Chinese HSR
IHR- Intercity High-Speed Rail
PDL- Passenger Designated Line
PFL- Mixed passenger & freight HSR line 

Line                   Section              Length     Designed  Fastest Average
                                                        Speed    Operating Speed
Wuguang PDL          Wuhan-Guagnzhou         968 km    350km/h     296.33km/h
Huning HSR           Shanghai-Nanjing        296 km    350km/h     243.29km/h
Jingjin IHR          Beijing-Tianjin         120 km    350km/h        240km/h
Zhengxi PDL          Zhengzhou-Xi'an         455 km    350km/h     231.36km/h
Wenfu PFL            Wenzhou-Fuzhou        298.4 km    250km/h     208.19km/h
Yongtaiwen PFL       Ningbo-Wenzhou          268 km    250km/h     206.15km/h
****ai PDL           Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan    225 km    250km/h     204.55km/h
Fuxia PFL            Fuzhou-Xiamen         274.9 km    250km/h     198.72km/h
Qinshen PDL          Qinhuangdao-Shenyang    405 km    250km/h     197.56km/h
Hening PFL           Hefei-Nanjing           156 km    250km/h     173.33km/h
Hewu PFL             Hankou-Hefei            351 km    250km/h     172.62km/h
Jiaoji PDL           Qingdao-Jinan         362.5 km    250km/h     161.11km/h
Dacheng PFL          Suining-Chengdu         148 km    200km/h      153.1km/h
(Suining-Chengdu Route)
Chengguan IHR        Chengdu-Qingchengshan    67 km    200km/h     134km/h

Chinese upgrade conventional railways

Line                   Route                Length    Designed   Fastest Average
                                                       Speed    Operating Speed
Jingguang line       Beijing-Hankou         1205 km    200km/h     134.39km/h
(Beijing-Hankou Route)
Jingguang line       Wuchang-Changsha        362 km    200km/h     114.92km/h
(Wuchang-Changsha Route)
Jingha line          Beijing-Harbin         1249 km    200km/h     157.77km/h
Jingha line          Tianjin-Qinhuangdao     285 km    200km/h     123.91km/h
(Tianjin-Qinhuangdao Route)
Jinghu line          Beijing-Shanghai       1463 km    200km/h     142.27km/h
Hukun  line          Shanghai-Changsha      1177 km    200km/h     147.43km/h
(Shanghai-Liling Route,Liling-Changsha Runs at Jinghu Line)
Longhai line         Shanghai-Zhengzhou      998 km    200km/h     148.22km/h
(Pixian-Zhengzhou Route, Shanghai-Pixian Runs at Jinghu line)
Longhai line         Baoji-Xi'an             173 km    200km/h     133.08km/h
(Baoji-Xi'an Route)
Guangshan line       Guangzhou-Shenzhen      139 km    200km/h     160.38km/h

China's conventional high-speed railway network is made up of four components:
(1) upgraded pre-existing rail lines that can accommodate high-speed trains,
(2) a national grid of mostly passenger dedicated HSR lines (PDLs),
(3) other newly-built conventional rail lines, mostly in western China,
(4) "intercity" HSR lines. Newly built high speed linesthat not be included in PDL lines and Western China lines

upgraded rail lines
in April 18, 2007, some 6003 km of track could carry trains at speeds of up to 200 km/h, CRH trains started to service at these pre-existing lines:
Guangzhou - Shenzhen 146 km, CRH1A, Feb 1, 2007 Service speed 160km/h
Beijing-Guangzhou 2324 km, CRH2A,CRH5A first open April 18, 2007
Beijing-Harbin 1338 km, CRH2A, CRH2E,CRH5A first open April 18, 2007
Beijing-Shanghai 1463 km, CRH1B,CRH1E,CRH2A,CRH2E,CRH5A first open April 18, 2007
Shanghai-Kunming 2937 km, CRH1A,CRH1B,CRH2A,ARH2B first open April 18, 2007
Qingdao-Jinan 395.2 km, CRH2A, first open April 18, 2007
Lanzhou-Lianyungang 1759 km, CRH5A, first open April 18, 2007

National High-Speed Rail Grid (4+4 PDL's)

4 North-South lines

Beijing-Harbin (Jingha) PDL
(Beijing-Shenyang-Harbin)
Designed Speed 350km/h length 1700km ,set to open by 2012
includes:
Beijing - Shenyang 676km, set to open by 2012
Harbin - Dalian 904km, set to open by 2011
Panjin - Yingkou 90km, set to open by 2011, Connection line to Qinhuangdao-Shenyang PDL line.

Beijing-Hongkong (Jinggang) PDL
(Beijing-Shijiazhuang-Wuhan-Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hongkong)
Designed Speed 350km/h length 2260km ,set to open by 2015
includes
Beijing-Shijiazhuang 281 km, Set to open by December 31, 2011
Shijiazhuang-Wuhan 838 km,set to open by December 31, 2011
Wuhan-Guangzhou 968 km, opened by December 26, 2009, CRH2C,CRH3C
Guangzhou-Shenzhen 116km, set to open by December 28, 2010
Shenzhen-Hongkong 26km, designed speed 200km/h set to open by 2015

Beijing-Shanghai (Jinghu) PDL
Designed Speed 350km/h length 1318km ,set to open by 2011
includes
Beijing - Shanghai 1318 km, will be open by December 31,2011
Bengbu-Hefei 131 km, set to open by December 31,2011 designed speed 300km/h, Extends line of Jinghu PDL

Southeast Coastal HSR Corridor
(Hangzhou-Ningbo-Taizhou-Wenzhou-Fuzhou-Xiamen-Shenzhen)
Designed Speed 350km/h (Hangzhou-Ningbo) or 250km/h (other lines) length 1600km ,set to open by 2012
includes
Hangzhou-Ningbo 150km, set to open by December 27,2011
Ningbo-Taizhou-Wenzhou 268 km,(250km/h) Opened by September 28,2009 CRH1B,CRH1E ,CRH2A,CRH2B,CRH2E
Wenzhou-Fuzhou 29 8km, (250km/h) opened by September 28,2009 CRH1B,CRH1E,CRH2A,CRH2B,CRH2E
Fuzhou-Xiamen 273 km, (250km/h) opened by April 26,2010 CRH1B,CRH1E,CRH2A,CRH2E
Xiamen-Shenzhen 502km, (250km/h) Set to open by February,2012

4 West-East lines
Qingdao-Taiyuan (Qingtai) PDL
(Qingdao-Jinan-Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan)
Designed Speed 250km/h, length 770km ,set to open by 2012
includs
Qingdao-Jinan 364 km, opened by December 20, 2008 CRH2A
Shijiazhuang - Jinan 319 km, Set to open by 2012
Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan 225 km, Opened by April 1,2009, CRH5A

Xuzhou-Lanzhou (Xulan) PDL
(Xuzhou-Zhengzhou-Xi'an-Baoji-Lanzhou)
Designed Speed 350km/h, length 1363 km ,set to open by 2013
includs
Zhengzhou-Xuzhou 357 km, set to open by 2013
Zhengzhou-Xi'an 455 km, opened by February 6, 2010, CRH2C
Xi'an-Baoji 148 km, set to open by 2012
Baoji-Lanzhou 403 km, set to open by 2013

Shanghai-Wuhan-Chengdu (Huhanrong) HSR Corridor
(Shanghai-Nanjing-Hefei-Wuhan-Yichang-Chongqing-Lichuan-Chongqing)
Designed Speed 350km/h (Shanghai-Nanjing), 250 km/h (Hefei-Wuhan & Hefei-Nanjing), and 200 km/h (other), length 1600 km ,set to open by 2012
includes
Shanghai-Nanjing 301km, Opened by July 1, 2010 CRH1B,CRH2C,CRH3C
Hefei-Nanjing 166 km, Opened by April 19,2008 CRH1B,CRH2A,CRH2B,
Hefei-Wuhan 351km, Opened by April 1, 2009 CRH2A
Hankou-Yichang 293km, set to open by January 1 2012
Yichang-Wanzhou 377 km, set to open by November 30, 2010 at 160km/h
Lichuan-Chongqing 264 km, set to open by 2012
Suining-Chongqing Second line 132 km, set to open by January, 2012
Suining-Chengdu 148 km, (Part of Daning line) Opened by June 30,2010 CRH1A

Shanghai-Kunming (Hukun) PDL
(Shanghai-Hangzhou-Changsha-Kunming)
Designed Speed 350km/h, length 2080 km ,set to open by 2014
includes:
Shanghai-Hangzhou 158 km, set to open by October 1, 2010
Hangzhou - Changsha 933 km, set to open by July, 2013
Changsha - Kunming 1167 km, Set to open by 2014

InterCity HSR lines (Only Listed lines that already exists and planned to open before 2012):
Qinhuangdao-Shenyang PDL, total length 405 km, designed speed 250 km/h, Opened by October 12, 2002 CRH2A, CRH2E,CRH5A
Beijing-Tianjin Intercity Rail, 115 km, 350km/h opened by August 1,2008 CRH1E,CRH2A,CRH2E,CRH3C
Chengdu - Dujiangyan HSR, 65km, 200km/h opened by May 10,2010 CRH1A
Shanghai - Nanjing HSR, 196 km, 350km/h Opened by July 1, 2010, part of Huhanrongline CRH1B,CRH2C,CRH3C
Nanchang-Jiujiang 131 km, 200 km/h Set to open by 2010
Guangzhou-Zhuhai MRT 117 km, 200 km/h set to open by October 28, 2010
Hainan East Ring line 308 km, 250 km/h set to open by 2010
Changchun-Jilin 109 km, 250 km/h, set to open by 2010
Tianjin-Binhai 45km, 350 km/h, set to open by 2011
Tianjin-Qinhuangdao 261 km, 350 km/h Set to open by 2011
Guangzhou-Foshan-Zhaoqing MRT 87km, 200km/h, set to open by March 2011

"Other lines" (Only Listed lines that planned to open before 2012):
Longyan-Xiamen 171 km 200 km/h 2010
Nanchang-Putian 604 km 200 km/h Sepetember 2011
Maoming-Zhanjiang 103 km 200/h December 2011
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Changjiu Intercity Highspeed line (250km/h) & Wujiu Upgrade line (200km/h) completed, Wuhan-Nanchang CRH to be opened soon!

Changjiu Intercity line, From Nanchang-Jiujiang, 131.27 km, Designed Speed 250km/h, Together with Wujiu line, which is a upgrade pre-exsisting line, 215.93 km, Designed Speed 200km/h. completed by August 28, 2010, will open to public service by Sepetember with CRH1 & CRH2

test run on Jiujiang Lushan Station, July 29,2010. connnect station of Wujiu line and Changjiu ICH

test run on Changjiu ICH, August 19, 2010

Planned operating speed

line                          Section            length      time  Average speed
Changjiu ICH               Nanchang-Jiujiang     131.27km    40m     197.55 km/h
Wujiu line                 Wuchang-Jiujiang      215.93km  1h20m     161.95 km/h
Wujiu line & Changjiu ICH  Wuchang-Nanchang       347.2km     2h      173.6 km/h

the Wuhan-Jiujiang PDL, 198km, designed speed 350km/h is set to open by June 30, 2013, by then, the planned operating speed between Wuchang-Nanchang will be

line                          Section            length      time  Average speed
Changjiu ICH               Nanchang-Jiujiang     131.27km    40m     197.55 km/h
Wujiu PDL                  Wuchang-Jiujiang         198km    50m     237.60 km/h
Wujiu PDL & Changjiu ICH   Wuchang-Nanchang      329.27km  1h30m     219.51 km/h

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR Undergoing Testing on Sepetember 1

The testing is conducted in Jia Shan and Jia Xing in Zhejiang Province. The 160km long Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR will open in October at a designed max speed of 350 km/h, cutting the traveling time to 38 minutes.

 

[greenlion]

Breaking News! the first CRH380B, CRH380B-6401L (L means 16 cars train), completed at CNR Tangshan factory by september 21 !

this picture made a mistake on train number, on the following video we can see the train number is CRH380B-6401L

here is a 12 minutes Video for the Official ceromony
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjA4MDM0MTY4.html

Official name of CRH 380 series confirmed by this thread

http://www.hobbyshanghai.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=35077&page=1

CRH380A, train No. 6001-6140 (140 trains in total) manufactuer by CSR Sifang Factory, 7 trains completed by september 26
CRH380B, train No.6201-6310 (110 train in total) manufacturer by CNR Changchun Factory
CRH380B, train No.6401-6470 (70 trains in total)manufacturer by CNR Tangshan Factory, 3 trains completed by September 21
CRH380C, train No.6601-6680 (80 trains in total)manufacturer by BST

September 24, CRH380A-6002 test run at Yuyao station, Huhang PDL

 

[Flywaver]

http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/ne...tze-delta-high-speed-rail-triangle-opens.html

 

[Invincibles]

Hopefully I will get to go on that in a couple of weeks.

I have tried getting tickets from where I am in Shenyang on the parts of the high speed network open up here and it seems impossible. Every train leaves within 2 hours to go south in the morning but all are booked up apparently

 

[Flywaver]

Unmodified CRH380...... 486KMH = 301mph...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuZGsWOqrZs&feature=player_embedded

 

[WatcherZero]

The Chinese Minister for Railways Liu Zhijun has been suspended for corruption and Sheng Guangzu the chief of customs has been sent in to investigate and take over the department. Hes ordered that tenders and invoices should continue as normal while he investigates but its feared this could seriously slow Chinas £380bn HSR investment over the next 5 years.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More detail on whats gone wrong in China:

Bullet for minister who bungled China's high-speed railway surge
19 February 2011
By MICHAEL WINES

In HIS seven years as chief of the Chinese railways ministry, Liu Zhijun built a commercial and political colossus that spanned continents and elevated the lowly train to a national symbol of pride and technological prowess. His abrupt sacking by the Communist Party last weekend has cast that empire in a decidedly different light, raising doubts not only about Mr Liu's stewardship and the corruption that dogs China's vast public-works projects, but also, perhaps, the safety, financial soundness and long-term viability of a rail system that has captured the world's attention.

Mr Liu, 58, was fired last Saturday and is being investigated by the party's disciplinary committee for "severe violations of discipline," a euphemism for corruption. His high government rank - minister-level officials are rarely fired under such a cloud - hints at deeper dissatisfaction.

Until last week, Mr Liu had led China's project to lace the nation with nearly 8,100 miles of high-speed rail lines and to build more than 11,000 miles of traditional track. The sheer size and cost of the endeavour is staggering - the investment has been estimated at $750 billion.

There are some clues to his sacking in top officials' public statements since the scandal broke. Speaking on Monday in Beijing, the official who is believed to be the country's new railways chief, Sheng Guangzu, said the ministry would "place quality and safety at the centre of construction projects."

The statement underscored concerns in some quarters that Mr Liu cut corners in his push to extend the rail system and to keep the project on schedule and within budget.

A person with ties to the ministry said the concrete bases for the tracks were so cheaply made, with inadequate use of chemical hardening agents, that trains would be unable to maintain their current speeds of about 217mph for more than a few years. In as little as five years, lower speeds, possibly below about 186mph, could be required as the rails become less straight, the expert said.

Strong concrete pillars require a large dose of high-quality fly ash, the by-product of burning coal. But the speed of construction has far exceeded supply, according to a 2008 study.

Such problems, the expert said, are caused by a combination of tight controls that have kept China's costs far below western levels and a strong aversion to buying higher-quality but costlier equipment from abroad.

China's high-speed network has been built far more cheaply than similar projects in the West and in Japan. A mile of rail in China costs roughly $15 million; in the West, estimates peg the price at anywhere between $40 million to $80 million.

The timing of Mr Liu's firing may be significant. It came at the end of China's Lunar New Year holiday, when trains are jammed and passengers are angriest.

The Communist Party has long worried that corruption may undermine its credibility with the public. But high-level officials are seldom sacked for corruption alone.

Russell Leigh Moses, an expert on the Chinese leadership, said Mr Liu's dismissal could signal disquiet over whether expansion had gone too far, too fast.

"You don't take someone down at that level of status unless they've done something really egregious," said Mr Moses. "I don't know whether it's politics or policy. But I wouldn't rule out the second."

http://news.scotsman.com/topstories/Bullet-for-minister-who-bungled.6720808.jp?articlepage=1

 

[dalmahoyhill]

yes i read that article about corruption, hopefully we wont find in 5 years time lines subsiding or crashes.
and i always thought the speed of development in china was amazing, now i know why.

 

[WatcherZero]

Seems to relate mainly to safety and build quality concerns but the speed limit on Chinas fastest HSR lines is being lowered from 350/380kmh to 300kmh with slower (cheaper) services mingled in (I.e. Average wages vs cost of operation was out of whack). It was originally the plan to bring in new services at a lower 300kmh limit and then gradually work up to the top speed but this lower speed limit has become permanent. Beijing University is saying is saying on the record (and government ministers off the record) that the trains arent upto it and theirs concerns on the build quality of the track itself with shortcuts taken during construction. However cost is also a motivation, as with the Maglev ticket prices are beyond the reach of the normal citizen and its becoming a white elephant.

China responds to high-speed rail safety fears

By Jamil Anderlini in Sanya, China

Published: April 14 2011 13:23 | Last updated: April 14 2011 13:23



China is lowering the operating speeds on its new bullet train lines because of safety and affordability concerns over the biggest high-speed rail network in the world.

The top speed for trains running on the country’s main high-speed lines will be reduced from 350km/h to 300km/h, said Sheng Guangzu, China’s new railway minister.

“This will offer more safety,” Mr Sheng was quoted as saying in the official Communist party mouthpiece, People’s Daily. “At the same time, this will allow more variation in ticket prices based on market principles.”

Lowering the speed limit for China’s showcase high-speed rail network signals a serious rethink of the country’s hugely ambitious plans. The move follows the removal of Liu Zhijun, the former railway minister, in February.

The Communist party is investigating Mr Liu for “serious disciplinary violations”, a claim that usually results in criminal corruption charges. Chinese media have aired allegations against him ranging from taking bribes to improper sexual liaisons.

Mr Liu and Zhang Shuguang, the former deputy chief engineer at the railway ministry who was also removed from his post on the same charges, were the main cheerleaders for China’s efforts to build ever-faster trains based on technology acquired from German, French and Japanese companies.

In addition to the new speed limit, which is expected to lower energy usage and operating costs, the total railway construction budget for the next five years appears to have been scaled back.

Mr Sheng said the government would spend Rmb2,800bn ($428.8bn) on railway construction from now until 2015, significantly less than previous reported estimates.

Although China’s railway network will still be expanded from the current 91,000km to 120,000km by the end of 2015 as previously planned, analysts said it was likely some planned high-speed routes would be cut and replaced with ordinary lines.

“The plans to run the trains at such high speeds posed a big safety risk,” said Zhao Jian, a professor at Beijing Transportation University.

Mr Zhao said lowering the operating speeds would also help pay for the extremely expensive new network by reducing ticket prices and increasing passenger numbers.

Critics of China’s high-speed rail project say the trains produced by Chinese companies are heavily based on foreign designs that were only meant to travel up to 250km/h.

China’s railway ministry and state-owned rail companies have consistently claimed to have “digested” and “re-innovated” these foreign designs to create completely homegrown Chinese trains. But most analysts and industry participants say more than 90 per cent of the technology is directly copied or bought from foreign companies.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, international rail executives have told the Financial Times that modifying the original designs to make trains go 350km/h and faster posed a serious safety risk.

China’s centrepiece Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail line, which is scheduled to open in the second half of this year, will have its top speed reduced from the planned 380km/h to the same national limit of 300km/h as the other main lines, Mr Sheng said in comments published in Chinese state media.

Meanwhile, regional non-trunk high-speed lines will operate trains at between 200 and 250km/h, while most railways in central and western China will operate at less than 200 km/h.

The main 300km/h lines will also operate bullet trains at slower speeds that cost less to ride, in an attempt to increase the number of passengers on those routes.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4cd5723e-6685-11e0-ac4d-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1JVFN6cst

 

[jon0844]

Of course the trains will be copies (rip offs) of other designs, and wasn't this line supposedly built with dodgy concrete and other materials?

No doubt we'll see people using this as another reason to attack HS2, saying it proves high speed rail is dangerous.

 

[Drsatan]

Of course the trains will be copies (rip offs) of other designs, and wasn't this line supposedly built with dodgy concrete and other materials?

No doubt we'll see people using this as another reason to attack HS2, saying it proves high speed rail is dangerous.

Nonetheless, the pace at which the Chinese high speed rail network is expanding is pretty extraordinary compared to the speed at which HS2 is going through the consultation process. Although in a one-party state like China it's easier to override people's protests since they can't vote you out of office....

 

[WatcherZero]

Theres also a encompassing belief in mega projects such as rail, dams, etc that goes right the way back to the great wall and grand canal.

 

[jon0844]

Nonetheless, the pace at which the Chinese high speed rail network is expanding is pretty extraordinary compared to the speed at which HS2 is going through the consultation process.

Well, erm, yes. Questionable materials, no doubt some interesting H&S policies, lack of unions (IWHT) and trains that are cheap as they've stolen technology from others.

No wonder they can roll out new services nice and quickly!

If we did all that, the cost would go down quite a bit - and we could also build a lot quicker. I doubt many people would get to give their opinion on the route either.

FWIW, I think China is probably too far one way and we're too far the other. I do think it's mad that we can have a consultation process that costs a fortune and takes years, with appeals and new inquiries etc.

 

[dalmahoyhill]

Interesting thread, and thanks for posting the article about the arrest of the head of high speed rail development. I read a short article in the Guardian but this was far more comprehensive. It beats arguing about the benefits of HS2.

I went to china 7 years ago and was amazed by the phenomenal development, even in the more remote western provinces. I travelled in Yunnan, Sichuan and Tibet and was in awe of the motorways, dams and railways they were constructing in the area. I am a civil engineer and I thought, wow this is like Britain in the Victorian era. I did a bit of research in current developments and the line from Yingchang to Chonqing is a real engineering feat. Plus the motorways linking the eastern plains with Sichuan, Guizhou and Yunnan have some insane bridges .

You cannot tell much at speed but the construction of the roads and rail network appeared good quality. It is obvious they use some standardisation. Most rail viaducts use the same precast concrete beams and pier arrangement.

I was shocked by the quality of private building work, many of the hotels we stayed in and other buildings we entered would be condemned in the west. Most were badly fitted out and probably should be structurally condemned. I am not surprised so many buildings collapsed (including schools, which was covered up by the state) in the Sichuan earthquake.

There was a report recently completed on why UK construction costs so much more than other countries. Benchmarked against other countries that are similar geographically to us (ie densely populated) things are still more expensive to construct in the UK and it is for a raft of reasons. Poor management by clients, overdesign by consultants to prescriptive standards, culture of adversarial-ness, stop start nature of government investments, our more onerous environmental and Health and safety standards and our laborious and labyrinthine planning laws. Think how long it takes any UK project to get through planning? it takes years and at substantial cost.

I was amazed at how quick the Chinese are developing their high speed rail network. I understand things can happen quicker in a one party state, you can strike out half the issues that dog getting anything done in Britain. There will not be the need to extensively consult the public and compensate properties along the route and go through prolonged planning. But I did wonder how china can build so much in that time scale, it just seems unfeasible. They still need to do ground investigation, run route options, design the structures etc. set up sites, this all takes plenty of time.

It is disappointing to read the articles about the corner cutting being taken to deliver the network but not wholly surprising. You do wonder how much of Chinese political system leads to these things happening. You are told by senior party members to construct 10,000km in 10 years whilst also developing conventional lines and a motorway network, you probably do not say it is not possible without worrying at the very least a yes man will replace you, or at the worst you get sent to some gulag in Xinjiang. So you cut corners…. And get sent to a gulag in Xinjiang.

More surprising was the section in the article about overspeeding on trains. China is running the Japanese E2 Shinkansen train and Siemens Velaro. The E2 is 275km/hr but the Velaro is capable of 380km/hr so I assumed they were using these units at this speed? Does anyone know what stock they have been overspeeding with?

The other point is that although China is booming and becoming an economic power the level of development still seems amazing. Is it the choice of where to spend the pennies that has governed this? How do they afford all the development? India is booming at a similar growth rate and is transport infrastructure doesn’t have anywhere near the level of spend that china does. Is Chinas development sustainable? Do the economics stack up? I ask this as I am not a economist and I would be interested in anyone’s opinion.

 

[WatcherZero]

Different economic models, India focussed on high tech and service industries, lots of people sat in front of desks, investment therefore was principally in Metro/city transport. China took the approach of industrialising building factories and so required a fast and efficent long distance transport network.

A lot of Indian investment went into the Military and space programmes with several wars with Pakistan, a large scale nuclear program and ballistic/sattelite program. China on the other hand under invested in its military for a long time, had a modest nuclear program and has only recently begun significant investment in a space programme. China has also made much better use of borrowing, essentially like the US massivley pump priming its economy with public spending and letting growth and inflation essentially eradicate the value of those old loans. There are signs however that its heading for a Spanish/Irish property bubble burst with heavy corrupt collusion between local government and building companies.