Chiswick Park to Hampton Court fares

[Railguy1]

I am trying to find out how much a weekly travelcard should cost between these two stations.

I assume for example, I will go via Wimbledon, so I need zones 2 to zones 6.

But when I go to the TfL website, I put that into the fare finder and get this message:
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/caps-and-travelcard-prices?intcmp=54720

A Travelcard or pay as you go cap does not exist for your zone combination. We have shown the best options for your journey.
Travelling outside your chosen zones may result in additional charges. Please ensure you have enough pay as you go credit for your full journey.

This suggests to me a travel card is not available. But I am then directed to the fares:
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/adult-fares-2019.pdf

Here I find a weekly travelcard for £43.90?

But I am also concious that Hampton Court is a national rail station, so is this travelcard price valid? Because a single fare on tfl services is £1.50 off peak, but would actually be £2.80 (via Turnham Green inshead) for this case. So would the travelcard price also be higher and by how much? If the travelcard is valid, why is it then, that a travelcard can be used on all services for the same price, but the single fares may vary depending on whether a service is from tfl or national rail?

 

[hkstudent]

I am trying to find out how much a weekly travelcard should cost between these two stations.

I assume for example, I will go via Wimbledon, so I need zones 2 to zones 6.

But when I go to the TfL website, I put that into the fare finder and get this message:
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/caps-and-travelcard-prices?intcmp=54720



This suggests to me a travel card is not available. But I am then directed to the fares:
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/adult-fares-2019.pdf

Here I find a weekly travelcard for £43.90?

But I am also concious that Hampton Court is a national rail station, so is this travelcard price valid? Because a single fare on tfl services is £1.50 off peak, but would actually be £2.80 (via Turnham Green inshead) for this case. So would the travelcard price also be higher and by how much? If the travelcard is valid, why is it then, that a travelcard can be used on all services for the same price, but the single fares may vary depending on whether a service is from tfl or national rail?

Travelcard is certainly valid on any stations within the zone, including National Rail and London Underground stations. The difference in single fares is not relevant to the discussion of day cap/travelcard.

All day caps must start from zone 1, so no day cap is available for zone 2-6 but zone 1-6 or 1-5 or 1-4... However, travelcard and contactless weekly cap does have non-zone 1 options.

For weekly travel, I would suggest using a contactless card instead as it would provide you weekly cap as well.

Single fares vary due to different charging schemes by various TOCs and TfL. However, TOCs agrees to be granted respective zonal revenue from single fare and season ticket when they join in the oyster card system. You may find that the distance of zones in the National Rail area is shorter than the TfL area to reflect the actual fare difference.

I would agree that there should be a TfL only travelcard with a lower cost than existing travelcard and can enjoy the frozen fare as promised by the current Mayor. However, that may cause difficulty in practice.

For the journey from Chiswick Park to Hampton Court, I would suggest you go via Richmond from Gunnersbury. It would save you one zone (zone 3-6) and the journey time difference isn't much.
Or you can even think of doing a bus-only journey, as it is more direct on the bus.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So would the travelcard price also be higher and by how much?

Travelcards aren't priced TfL-Only, so there's no price difference. The fare differences only apply to singles.

There is no day Travelcard or price cap for Z2-6, which is what they're trying to say, but the message is a bit misleading.

 

[paddington]

Because a single fare on tfl services is £1.50 off peak, but would actually be £2.80 (via Turnham Green inshead) for this case. So would the travelcard price also be higher and by how much? If the travelcard is valid, why is it then, that a travelcard can be used on all services for the same price, but the single fares may vary depending on whether a service is from tfl or national rail?

There is only one weekly travelcard price between each combination of zones. The travelcard is valid at all times, on all services as long as you stay within the zones. (In a limited number of cases, you can go outside the valid zones and not be charged extra, but this can lead to problems with poorly informed revenue staff, as seen on this forum. If using Z2-6 travelcard for Chiswick Park to Hampton Court, via any of Gunnersbury, Imperial Wharf or Southfields, this would not be case.)

For single journeys, the fare varies based on whether the journey is defined as a peak or off-peak journey, and whether falls under the TfL or National Rail fare scales.

£1.50 is the Z2-6 and Z3-6 off-peak fare on the TfL fare scale. This includes the tube, overground and rail services that are considered equivalent to tube/overground, the so-called "interavailable" routes: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ection-7-integrated-fares.70022/#post-1315636

As the journey to Hampton Court is served by SWR, it falls under the National Rail fare scale so a Z3-6 off-peak fare is £2.80. You need to touch a pink reader at Richmond for this fare otherwise it is considered Z2-6 and will be £3.00. Even if travelling via Zone 2, you could nonetheless touch the pink reader at Richmond and be charged the lower fare, but at some inconvenience to yourself to save 20p, not sure of the legal position or whether this could even be detected via an Oyster inspection.

 

[hkstudent]

There is only one weekly travelcard price between each combination of zones. The travelcard is valid at all times, on all services as long as you stay within the zones. (In a limited number of cases, you can go outside the valid zones and not be charged extra, but this can lead to problems with poorly informed revenue staff, as seen on this forum. If using Z2-6 travelcard for Chiswick Park to Hampton Court, via any of Gunnersbury, Imperial Wharf or Southfields, this would not be case.)

For single journeys, the fare varies based on whether the journey is defined as a peak or off-peak journey, and whether falls under the TfL or National Rail fare scales.

£1.50 is the Z2-6 and Z3-6 off-peak fare on the TfL fare scale. This includes the tube, overground and rail services that are considered equivalent to tube/overground, the so-called "interavailable" routes: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ection-7-integrated-fares.70022/#post-1315636

As the journey to Hampton Court is served by SWR, it falls under the National Rail fare scale so a Z3-6 off-peak fare is £2.80. You need to touch a pink reader at Richmond for this fare otherwise it is considered Z2-6 and will be £3.00. Even if travelling via Zone 2, you could nonetheless touch the pink reader at Richmond and be charged the lower fare, but at some inconvenience to yourself to save 20p, not sure of the legal position or whether this could even be detected via an Oyster inspection.

What inspection can check is whether you have tapped in / out and whether a travelcard relevant to the zones are loaded.
It can't tell which route you are taking.

 

[methethpropbut]

There is only one weekly travelcard price between each combination of zones. The travelcard is valid at all times, on all services as long as you stay within the zones. (In a limited number of cases, you can go outside the valid zones and not be charged extra, but this can lead to problems with poorly informed revenue staff, as seen on this forum. If using Z2-6 travelcard for Chiswick Park to Hampton Court, via any of Gunnersbury, Imperial Wharf or Southfields, this would not be case.)

For single journeys, the fare varies based on whether the journey is defined as a peak or off-peak journey, and whether falls under the TfL or National Rail fare scales.

£1.50 is the Z2-6 and Z3-6 off-peak fare on the TfL fare scale. This includes the tube, overground and rail services that are considered equivalent to tube/overground, the so-called "interavailable" routes: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ection-7-integrated-fares.70022/#post-1315636

As the journey to Hampton Court is served by SWR, it falls under the National Rail fare scale so a Z3-6 off-peak fare is £2.80. You need to touch a pink reader at Richmond for this fare otherwise it is considered Z2-6 and will be £3.00. Even if travelling via Zone 2, you could nonetheless touch the pink reader at Richmond and be charged the lower fare, but at some inconvenience to yourself to save 20p, not sure of the legal position or whether this could even be detected via an Oyster inspection.

Also doesn't the pink reader simply say "Tap your oyster when changing trains" or something similar? Someone could reasonably do Chiswick Park - Richmond - Clapham Junction - Hampton Court, see the sign and tap as instructed - in which case tapping would actually be totally the right thing to do!

 

[paddington]

Also doesn't the pink reader simply say "Tap your oyster when changing trains" or something similar? Someone could reasonably do Chiswick Park - Richmond - Clapham Junction - Hampton Court, see the sign and tap as instructed - in which case tapping would actually be totally the right thing to do!

Well basically each route is defined as to which pink readers are needed. If you tap on pink readers unnecessarily it will simply have no effect. For Chiswick Park to Hampton Court, if you tap on no pink readers and stay within the barriers it assumes a Z2-6 journey, while if you tap at Richmond it assumes a Z3-6 journey. As another example, there are pink readers at Canada Water, but for the journeys I often make (southern Overground to Jubilee line not Z1) tapping or not has no effect.

I would have thought that if you tap at Richmond yet go via Clapham Junction, it would charge Z3-6 when really a Z2-6 should be charged, so not the right thing to do?

Also thinking a bit more about this, you should really just start at Gunnersbury instead of Chiswick Park. If you want to go via Richmond, it seems more sensible to walk or bus to Gunnersbury than going up and down the stairs at Turnham Green. The island platform at Gunnersbury means you can easily change your mind and head towards Earls Court if there are long delays in the other direction.

Gunnersbury to Hampton Court is automatically a Z3-6 fare and no Z2-6 fare is available, even if you did go via Z2. As long as you have some PAYG balance you are not doing anything wrong, but theoretically SWR revenue staff might try to screw you over if they detected this. Hopefully MikeWh would set them straight.

 

[hkstudent]

Well basically each route is defined as to which pink readers are needed. If you tap on pink readers unnecessarily it will simply have no effect. For Chiswick Park to Hampton Court, if you tap on no pink readers and stay within the barriers it assumes a Z2-6 journey, while if you tap at Richmond it assumes a Z3-6 journey. As another example, there are pink readers at Canada Water, but for the journeys I often make (southern Overground to Jubilee line not Z1) tapping or not has no effect.

I would have thought that if you tap at Richmond yet go via Clapham Junction, it would charge Z3-6 when really a Z2-6 should be charged, so not the right thing to do?

Also thinking a bit more about this, you should really just start at Gunnersbury instead of Chiswick Park. If you want to go via Richmond, it seems more sensible to walk or bus to Gunnersbury than going up and down the stairs at Turnham Green. The island platform at Gunnersbury means you can easily change your mind and head towards Earls Court if there are long delays in the other direction.

Gunnersbury to Hampton Court is automatically a Z3-6 fare and no Z2-6 fare is available, even if you did go via Z2. As long as you have some PAYG balance you are not doing anything wrong, but theoretically SWR revenue staff might try to screw you over if they detected this. Hopefully MikeWh would set them straight.

Well, SWR revenue staff cannot screw you for not travelling by the default route with Oyster Travelcard:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...travelling-history.185502/page-2#post-4141927

 

[Railguy1]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I have a good handle on it now.