"Chuggers" at London Kings Cross

[GRALISTAIR]

I get angry about phone scammers too, even though I just wind them up. I waste my time to waste their time, so they have just that little bit less time to con others.

I love doing that. Do you prefer these or JWs?

A good way to get rid of a chugger is to say the opposite. Pretty much like telling religious people that you worship Satan.

That may work with JWs!!

 

[jon0844]

I love doing that. Do you prefer these or JWs?

JWs tend to knock on my door early in the morning, and sometimes I don't get up (or should I say don't get dressed) until quite late in the day. So they're just annoying as I have to rush to put clothes on.

Calls from India are 99% going to be scams these days. I got the TalkTalk ones because my details were hacked/sold, and from those details I got the other ones like my PC/router is infected, and then you get the ones about cheaper calls etc.

Personally, I am not sure people should take jobs like this even if they need the money. I wouldn't decide to go and rob banks, and these jobs are often criminal in that, at best, people are misled. At worst, they're being blatantly scammed.

 

[talldave]

JWs are evil - also passively after your money too. They destroy families, something I sadly have seen first hand. The last bunch that came into my street got an earful of home truths they didn't want to hear and I saved elderly neighbours from having their day interrupted as well.

At stations, JWs cleverly lurk just out of range of station property, but if they're causing an obstruction it's still worth reporting them. TfL don't tolerate them.

 

[Clip]

Annoying as chuggers are, I'm not actually rude to them because, as I have discovered when talking to some of them, they're doing a pretty thankless job only because they can't get a better one. .

Nail on head son. Though I disagree they get paid for it thats what they do to supplement their student fees and loans. Im polite and say no and move on.

 

[Jonny]

JWs are evil - also passively after your money too. They destroy families, something I sadly have seen first hand. The last bunch that came into my street got an earful of home truths they didn't want to hear and I saved elderly neighbours from having their day interrupted as well.

At stations, JWs cleverly lurk just out of range of station property, but if they're causing an obstruction it's still worth reporting them. TfL don't tolerate them.

Newcastle is a bad place, one of the JWs' near-station points (Grainger street) is also designated as a cycleway. Talking of chuggers, though...
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but not directly railway-related (at least directly), Newcastle-upon-Tyne Council has introduced a PSPO to get rid of Chuggers. Source:

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/curse-charity-chugger-over-newcastle-11091556
Curse of the charity 'chugger' over as Newcastle City Council introduce ban
13:47, 24 MAR 2016
Newcastle City Council bosses have passed new powers to curb anti-social behaviour in the city centre

Charity “chuggers” and beggars have been banned from Newcastle city centre and face a £100 fine.

(article continues)

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

JWs are evil - also passively after your money too. They destroy families, something I sadly have seen first hand. The last bunch that came into my street got an earful of home truths they didn't want to hear and I saved elderly neighbours from having their day interrupted as well.

At stations, JWs cleverly lurk just out of range of station property, but if they're causing an obstruction it's still worth reporting them. TfL don't tolerate them.

And they all sound American...

I mean, what is that?

 

[krus_aragon]

And they all sound American...

I mean, what is that?

A lot come over here from North America. I believe it is a strong element of their beliefs that they should do a period of missionary work if able to, typically abroad. Their church helps with logistics, etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many of you seem badly equipped for life! For goodness sake just tell the chuggers to sod off if you don't want to be bothered by them!!!

I'm happy to do this in the street, but I have two objections to them particularly on stations:

1. They cause obstruction to passenger flow at busy stations (I did complain about them at Slough on that basis, and to be fair fGW as-was did insist they relocate).

2. They prey on the feeling of guilt of the vulnerable. I can say no, many don't feel they can.

Personally, I would like to see the practice of signing up direct debit or other continuous charitable donations[1] on the street banned outright, but at least a landowner like Network Rail banning it outright on their land.

Happy for them to sell their charity and hand out forms to be completed later, or to solicit for single one-off donations, provided passenger flow is not impeded and "no" is accepted as "no" with no attempt to physically obstruct people as happens far too much, though.

[1] There is an argument that, for consumer protection reasons, the "cooling off period" of online contracts should apply to all such contracts.
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Same for me. I'll happily throw some change into a cash bucket for charity but if you want my bank details it is never going to happen. If I want to get that serious with a charity then I'll be making the first move and it won't be by talking to some random person in the street.

Agreed.

If they had a bucket, they would get £1 or whatever random change I had.

As they have no bucket, they get £0.

But the problem is not really annoyance to me, it is preying on the vulnerable.

 

[Taunton]

If they had a bucket, they would get £1 or whatever random change I had.

Please don't think anything like £1 of your contribution makes its way to any charity. The bulk is syphoned off by the obscure promoter and commission payments to those collecting. The real way to stop this is not to give on the spot, but save up your random change and donate it directly to a cause you think is worthwhile, avoiding any skimming-off intermediaries.

It's a shame, the Poppy Appeal collectors in November, I understand, are volunteers, with 100% of the collection going to the funds, it would be unfortunate to see them go, but the modern lot have ruined it for all.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Charity donations are big business these days: Just Giving charge 5% commission and Virgin Giving charge £100 start-up fee +3.5% commission. He's quite the benefactor our Beardie.

I object to chuggers because they don't take no for an answer, I hate the smartarse remarks when I say no and walk on past. It can be quite intimidating, especially as there's always fifty of them stopping you every ten feet.

 

[DarloRich]

I object to chuggers because they don't take no for an answer, I hate the smartarse remarks when I say no and walk on past. It can be quite intimidating, especially as there's always fifty of them stopping you every ten feet.

They know when I tell them no! You need to be firm but polite. If they come to your door and if you fancy some fun tell them you are an undischarged bankrupt. They cant get away quick enough!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I object to chuggers because they don't take no for an answer, I hate the smartarse remarks when I say no and walk on past. It can be quite intimidating, especially as there's always fifty of them stopping you every ten feet.

Yes, I find that very rude indeed. Probably also intimidating of people who aren't 6'4" and built like the proverbial.

If they are rude to me, I am rude to them, FWIW. They start it; my first comment is "no, I am not interested, thank you", but almost always they escalate it to a loud and assertive "move out of my way now". I'm big and threatening looking enough that this suffices (I'm a totally non-violent person, last time I hit someone I was about 10, but they don't know that )

It's like phone calls.

First question "is this a sales call, please"? (I already know it is).

If the answer is "no", my reply very quickly gets very rude[1] and curt indeed.

[1] Not swearing, just leaving them in no doubt that their action in telling me a lie is totally out of order.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm happy to do this in the street, but I have two objections to them particularly on stations:

1. They cause obstruction to passenger flow at busy stations (I did complain about them at Slough on that basis, and to be fair fGW as-was did insist they relocate).

But that only works if there is unimpeded passenger flow. often there isn't and it just sounds like spotterish wibbling.

2. They prey on the feeling of guilt of the vulnerable. I can say no, many don't feel they can.

Well then people are stupid for being so soft headed and need to toughen up.

Personally, I would like to see the practice of signing up direct debit or other continuous charitable donations[1] on the street banned outright, but at least a landowner like Network Rail banning it outright on their land.

But as set out above Charities use all manner of helpful PR to get their own way. Who do you think will win that argument? Nasty NR or poor insert charity name here?

I would ban them everywhere as they are a pest. I give to charity that I feel deserve it or work in areas i am interested in. You aren't having my bank details. Sorry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for railway stations, if I see them I make a formal complaint. If enough people did this, they would perhaps be banned from Railway property entirely. I would consider it very much in favour of the railway were it to make that decision.
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Well then people are stupid for being so soft headed and need to toughen up.

Do you have elderly relatives, out of interest? They are the kind of people who are targets.

I would ban them everywhere as they are a pest. I give to charity that I feel deserve it or work in areas i am interested in. You aren't having my bank details. Sorry.

I agree, and I am quite willing to state this politely, to which the correct action by the chugger is to move out of the way and apologise for having taken my time (if they wanted to give me a leaflet about their charity I would also have no problem with this being offered). On the odd occasion this is what happens. On far too many occasions, it doesn't.

For the protection of vulnerable people, it should not be legal to initiate[1] the signing of people up to any kind of contract, even a cancellable one, on the spot in a public place.

[1] It would be ridiculous to ban the signing up of people to contracts, i.e. season tickets etc. But there should not be active sales - if you want a season ticket, or to make a charitable donation, you know where to go to initiate the discussion. Similarly, door to door, if I want a salesman, I will contact a company and ask for one to be sent. If I have not done this, they are not welcome. Happy to take their leaflet, of course.

 

[DarloRich]

Do you have elderly relatives, out of interest? They are the kind of people who are targets.

Yes lots - they are worse than me

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes lots - they are worse than me

It does seem that elderly/retired people, having a lot of time on their hands, are one of two things - vulnerable, or consumer experts who would never in a million years be caught out even over the matter of £0.05. I guess yours are the latter

 

[DarloRich]

It does seem that elderly/retired people, having a lot of time on their hands, are one of two things - vulnerable, or consumer experts who would never in a million years be caught out even over the matter of £0.05. I guess yours are the latter

they are just tight and irascible

 

[Statto]

Newcastle is a bad place, one of the JWs' near-station points (Grainger street) is also designated as a cycleway. Talking of chuggers, though...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
but not directly railway-related (at least directly), Newcastle-upon-Tyne Council has introduced a PSPO to get rid of Chuggers. Source:

Liverpool City Council imposed restrictions on Chuggers a few years ago, now they've disappeared to surrounding areas.

 

[jon0844]

A lot come over here from North America. I believe it is a strong element of their beliefs that they should do a period of missionary work if able to, typically abroad. Their church helps with logistics, etc.

An awful lot of them come here from the US as it is indeed a requirement. My memory is rather poor now, but I was on a bus once where the driver was virtually interviewing them. They get paid a paltry amount, but basically have do it.

The two guys on the bus seemed suitably brainwashed so as not to see a massive problem with the situation they were in. It was clear they weren't here on holiday, and wouldn't be taking advantage of being less than an hour away from the west end.

 

[Dr_Paul]

That may work with JWs!!

A couple of times when I've been confronted by JWs, and when I've had some spare time on my hands, I've engaged them in a philosophical discussion. On both occasions, after half an hour of being lectured on the relationship of thinking and being, the JW's group leader said to me: 'We've got to be going now.' It's not often you hear that!

As it is, the JWs have had a stall outside my local railway station on most days for the last couple of months. They don't hassle people, however.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

An awful lot of them come here from the US as it is indeed a requirement. They get paid a paltry amount, but basically have do it.

The two guys on the bus seemed suitably brainwashed so as not to see a massive problem with the situation they were in. It was clear they weren't here on holiday, and wouldn't be taking advantage of being less than an hour away from the west end.

Those are Mormons

A couple of times when I've been confronted by JWs, and when I've had some spare time on my hands, I've engaged them in a philosophical discussion. On both occasions, after half an hour of being lectured on the relationship of thinking and being, the JW's group leader said to me: 'We've got to be going now.' It's not often you hear that!

As it is, the JWs have had a stall outside my local railway station on most days for the last couple of months. They don't hassle people, however.

Yes JWs and Mormons are different. You can usually get them with the right questions or statements.

 

[jon0844]

Those are Mormons

Ah, fair enough.

I assume the 'deal' is much the same though? Either way, it doesn't sound like a particularly enjoyable or fulfilling way to travel the world.

 

[AndyNLondon]

Charity donations are big business these days: Just Giving charge 5% commission and Virgin Giving charge £100 start-up fee +3.5% commission. He's quite the benefactor our Beardie.

The commissions aren't too bad, really. I'm a trustee of a small charity, and recently researched the various online donation systems that are available: the nearest you can get to commission-free is BT's MyDonate, which only deducts the card processing fees (1.3% for credit cards, flat-rate 15p for debit card, so about the same for a £10 donation) and is funded out of BT's corporate social responsibility budget. MyDonate's main advantage is the low cost - it's not as slick as the more expensive options.

However a charity takes donations - credit/debit cards, SMS short codes, paypal, bitcoin, direct debits, cheques in the post, cash in a tin, whatever - there will be administrative costs. Those costs may vary in amount, be more or lower visible to donors, and be monetary or in staff/volunteer time, but they exist all the same.

 

[Bookd]

Whether JW or Mormons I recall a suggestion from an expert (it may have been Jasper Carrott). As by definition they should be scrupulously honest, if they knock on your door sit them down, say that you are going to the kitchen for a drink, and then go out for the day and leave them sitting there!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Whether JW or Mormons I recall a suggestion from an expert (it may have been Jasper Carrott). As by definition they should be scrupulously honest, if they knock on your door sit them down, say that you are going to the kitchen for a drink, and then go out for the day and leave them sitting there!

I am pretty sure Jasper Carrott (btw did you know he is married to a JW that is how he knows so much about them)

 

[jon0844]

However a charity takes donations - credit/debit cards, SMS short codes, paypal, bitcoin, direct debits, cheques in the post, cash in a tin, whatever - there will be administrative costs. Those costs may vary in amount, be more or lower visible to donors, and be monetary or in staff/volunteer time, but they exist all the same.

Of course there will be costs unless you can find thousands of volunteers (and even then there are costs, whether for collecting equipment or banking fees etc).

But chuggers seem to be one of the worst ways to do things. For every person signed up, how many people walk by and get angry and decide not to support that charity? If you're harassed by someone with a Shelter tabard then you may well not support them ever again because in your mind that person was from Shelter (they certainly claim to be if you ask).

I wonder if any charities have measured that?

And if you have to pay for over 12 months before the charity sees any money (or most of it) then that's misleading to me. And when they then call up and 'demand' more money that's even worse.

My wife did a few runs for a cancer charity. She raised a lot of money, including car boot sales where every penny went to them, and then she got calls trying to guilt trip her into paying more. As a family we'd lost a few people to cancer not long before, so it was particularly insulting so she told them to **** off and hasn't given them a penny since.

I guess some charities haven't heard of the phrase about biting the hand that feeds you...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess some charities haven't heard of the phrase about biting the hand that feeds you...

Quite.

I make an annual donation to charity instead of sending Christmas cards. I choose the charity for different reasons each year, and it is selected by researching online for options based on the area I would like to support that year.

I don't think a single one has had a repeat donation, because they all seem to like to send guilt-tripping begging letters over and over again. Receiving one deselects that charity for future support. I don't mind newsletters and the likes, but it's usually direct debit forms and unsolicited merchandise (the latter goes in the bin).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

My wife did a few runs for a cancer charity. She raised a lot of money, including car boot sales where every penny went to them, and then she got calls trying to guilt trip her into paying more. As a family we'd lost a few people to cancer not long before, so it was particularly insulting so she told them to **** off and hasn't given them a penny since.

I guess some charities haven't heard of the phrase about biting the hand that feeds you...

Glad you posted this - so true.