Circle line at Gloucester Road

Discussion in 'London Underground' started by MatthewRead, 10 Nov 2019.

  1. MatthewRead

    MatthewRead On Moderation

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    Why do clockwise bound Circle line trains often stop beyond Gloucester Road station, with the last 2 carriages still platformed, to let eastbound District line trains pass?

    Wouldn't it be easier if they remained fully platformed, with their doors open, until the eastbound District has crossed over?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 11 Nov 2019
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  3. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    That’s how the existing signalling is provided and has been for many years, even when the crossover to the District Line was removed.
    Advance starter EE225 will not clear unless a train is standing at it, station starter EE230 will clear first to allow movement to EE225.
    This may change when CBTC SMA5 is commissioned.
     
    Last edited: 11 Nov 2019
  4. MatthewRead

    MatthewRead On Moderation

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    Is it true in the days of hand worked operation people use to attempt to board through the last carriage when it was still platformed and the guard use to stay on the platform to try and prevent this.
     
  5. simple simon

    simple simon Member

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    I do not know the answer (am not quite *that* old) but I can guess, based on personal experience at Stratford where there is cross platform interchange and 'in days of yore' the BR guard (on hand operated 'slam door' trains) would wait until the Central line train's doors started opening to activate the starting bell that tells the train driver to start the train on its way... My being here to write this message confirms that on every occasion I survived the process.

    Of course the trains at Gloucester Road would have mostly been stationary (unlike Stratford), which would have made the process about as safe as boarding a bus at red traffic signals!

    I suspect that there is a reason why it could be beneficial for the trains to be run this way. By having the train ready to cross the eastbound District tracks minimises delays and therefore enhances track throughput. The converse would be for the Inner Circle trains to wait for a green signal whilst still at the station with their doors open - a passenger who is slow to board (and possibly holds a door open whilst a relative walks as quickly as they can to catch the train) would delay not only this train but also the next eastbound District line train, and at busy times quite likely the trains after that...

    Also, its worth remembering that in olden days there could be as many as 40 trains an hour and at such times it was not unusual for the back of one train to be clearing the platform when front of the next train had already entered the station. The trains would be moving slowly, so stopping distances were short. Perhaps the primary reason why trains do not operate in this way 'today' is that when the automated Victoria line trains did this the passengers on the station platforms became alarmed and feared the worst. So to reassure nervous passengers the practise was stopped.

    I do agree though that especially on Sundays and other times, when schedules are slightly more relaxed than 'weekday off-peak', it would represent better public relations to have the train wait in the platform with its doors open. Nevertheless, at least (one hopes) the next train will not be 30 minutes later, as was the case at Stratford and why I risked annoying railway staff. Especially in the winter, on a horribly cold windswept platform.
     
    Last edited: 19 Nov 2019
  6. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    By having a trap point there it allows a train to draw right up to the points, which means a few seconds are saved if a train towards HSK has to wait for a train from Earl’s Court to clear the junction. Of course the flip side is that the points are locked until a train comes to a stand, so there will be times when this arrangement adds a few seconds. Evidently the signal designers have calculated that this setup is the best for what is a critical junction.

    CTBC will probably change this, as LU has a stipulation that trains should not receive a limit of movement authority until they can fully clear a platform. So unless a concession to standard is applied here the train will almost certainly be held in the platform.
     

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