Circle or H&C line?

[MidnightFlyer]

Hi all,

I do get a bit OCD-y when it comes to records of my journeys, so here goes:

I joined a Tube train this morning at Euston Square station, bound for 'Hammersmith via Paddington'. There were no announcements on the train as to destinations/next stops etc, and the maps onboad showed the Circle, H&C and District line Wimbledon-Edgeware Road trains. The destination board on the rear of the train leaving Paddington was showing Edgeware Road. So my question is was this a Circle or Hammersmith & City line train, I didn't take note of the coach number etc sorry, but may remember some stuff if asked.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Ivo]

Although obviously I can't say for certain (it may have been a mistake), but if the other end said Edgware Road it would suggest that the train was on the Circle and the driver had not bothered to change the blind at both ends.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Although obviously I can't say for certain (it may have been a mistake), but if the other end said Edgware Road it would suggest that the train was on the Circle and the driver had not bothered to change the blind at both ends.

T'was my thought too, just wanted to check though! If TfL hadn't pi**ed away the Circle line, turning it into a Lasso Line, everything would be OK.

Would certain sets work certain routes specifically, or do they vary routes day to day?

Thanks anyway!!!

 

[SS4]

Doesn't the circle line have yellow poles where H&C has pink poles inside the carriage?


edit: yellow on white is not good for the eyes

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Doesn't the circle line have yellow poles where H&C has pink poles inside the carriage?


edit: yellow on white is not good for the eyes

Another initial thought too, and i can't remember what colour they were. Why would they display three maps then?

I'll take Circle if no-one can see otherwise.

 

[SS4]

I would agree it's circle based on Edgware Road

 

[Ivo]

T'was my thought too, just wanted to check though! If TfL hadn't pi**ed away the Circle line, turning it into a Lasso Line, everything would be OK.

Would certain sets work certain routes specifically, or do they vary routes day to day?

The two alternate on a daily basis, and to a lesser degree do so with the District to Edgware Road as well. The vast majority run from either Hammersmith depot or Barking sidings, and use set "roads" there. The units on these "roads" are then already slated to run specific duties the following day, simply owing to the "road" they spend the night on. If I was at home (i.e. Southend) and had my Circle/H&C Working Timetable to hand(which is admittedly about ten years out of date!), I'd send you a sample so you could see for yourself. But essentially, ever since the H&C gained its independence from the Met (in 1988 I think), it has been closely linked to the Circle, and the two are effectively one (even going as far as to be considered as such internally).

Doesn't the circle line have yellow poles where H&C has pink poles inside the carriage?

No. As outlined above, the two use the same trains ("C"-stock units dating from the late 1960s). District Line services between Wimbledon and Edgware Road also use this stock, because Bayswater and the like are too short for the more mdoern "D"-stock trains (modern? "D"-stock?). It means that the Circle and Hammersmith & City, and part of the District, all have the same colour on the poles inside: Yellow.

 

[Daniel]

All C stock have yellow grab poles.

If you can put down as much journey details as possible - car numbers, (pref leading), train number if you have it, actual departure time, actual arrival time, date... as much as you can, and I can look back through the manual electric logging system, (its updated with late-running too, so the actual dep/arr times are fine rather than booked)

Anyway, as much as you can and I'll have a look for you. If you know roughly the times let me know and I'll just let you know all C / H&C trains departing in that time span and you can choose which one to go with.

Dan

 

[MidnightFlyer]

All C stock have yellow grab poles.

If you can put down as much journey details as possible - car numbers, (pref leading), train number if you have it, actual departure time, actual arrival time, date... as much as you can, and I can look back through the manual electric logging system, (its updated with late-running too, so the actual dep/arr times are fine rather than booked)

Anyway, as much as you can and I'll have a look for you. If you know roughly the times let me know and I'll just let you know all C / H&C trains departing in that time span and you can choose which one to go with.

Dan

Thanks mate, roughly:
Date - 23rd February 2011;
Dep - Euston Sqaure roughly 1112-1115;
Arr - Paddington roughly 1122-1125.

Give or take 2-3 mins either side, my train was 1136 of Paddington, and was announced about 1130, and i was there roughly 5 mins before that.

Sorry, took no note a vehicle or Class etc.

I think there was a departure W/B from Euston Square two mins later.

 

[Ivo]

If it's any help, the TfL site suggests that there is a departure from Euston Square at 11:15 which arrives at 11:24, on the H&C. Those either side of it appear to be on the Circle.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If it's any help, the TfL site suggests that there is a departure from Euston Square at 11:15 which arrives at 11:24, on the H&C.

Great, If I'd just looked at the bloody time on the massive clocks...

thanks for all your help, but I'm no nearer, can you send me a link for the Circle line version of this please?

 

[Ivo]

Uh, not really. All I can suggest is going on tfl.gov.uk and using the advanced search. Input 11:00 from Euston Square to Paddington H&C, specifying the H&C platforms, for tomorrow and see what it comes up with. (That's what I did; the times are of course the same.)

 

[DavyCrocket]

It could have come from anywhere, the H&C and Circle are heavily interworked on the present timetable. I'm sure that this is set to be less common on the next timetable.

Also, C Stocks now stable at Parsons Green, Lillie Bridge, Barking and Hammersmith only, plus one at Edgware Road too I think.

 

[jopsuk]

a warning for the future- the C & D stock will be getting replaced with a single fleet of S7 stock. Could be worse- at one point I'm pretty sure there was serious consideration given to running S8, in a single seating configuration, on the entire Sub-Surface lines network.

With digital displays rather than blinds, unless there's an announcement that says "This a is a Circle (etc) line train) there will be no way to tell if a train going to Hammersmith from Liverpool Street onwards is H&C or Circle, or if a train going to Edgeware Road from High Street Kensington onwards is District or Circle.

 

[Daniel]

At 11:10:00, T216 departed ESQ with a HMS TD, (originated from ALD) - Circle

T216 ARR PAD 11:18:40

I *think* we've narrowed it down via PM to T216?

 

[Mojo]

They're all the same!

 

[bicbasher]

The only way I know if I'm on an H&C or Circle when travelling to Royal Oak is to listen to the on board announcements, otherwise the front blinds will say "Circle Line to Hammersmith."

H&C tend to use "Hammersmith via Paddington" although this has also been on Circle services.

 

[causton]

With digital displays rather than blinds, unless there's an announcement that says "This a is a Circle (etc) line train) there will be no way to tell if a train going to Hammersmith from Liverpool Street onwards is H&C or Circle, or if a train going to Edgeware Road from High Street Kensington onwards is District or Circle.

If you've seen the S8 stock it shows the line on the screens and announces it - so the S7 will presumably announce the line too

 

[LM Class 323]

Hammersmith And City Is From London Paddington To Hammersmith ( Next To Fgw Platforms ) And Circle Is From Paddington To ????

 

[MCR247]

What are you on about?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Hammersmith & City line - Salmon Pink - Barking, West Ham, Bromley-by-Bow, Liverpool St, Kings Cross St Pancras, Baker Street, Edgware Road, Paddington, White City, Hammersmith.
Circle line - Yellow - Edgware Road, Paddington, Notting Hill Gate, South Kensington, Victoria, Embankment, Cannon Street, Tower Hill, Liverpool Street, then as above. Used to be just Edgware Road-Edgware Road and round in a massive circle all day, but was turned into a lasso by Bojo and co.

Is that what you wanted?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To let you all know, thanks to the invaluable service of Daniel, I have now decided I was on the Circle line service, departing Euston Square at 1110.

Thanks for your help all - I can put Wednesday's info in my sig now and update my mileage!

Matt

 

[simple simon]

It could have come from anywhere, the H&C and Circle are heavily interworked on the present timetable. I'm sure that this is set to be less common on the next timetable.

Also, C Stocks now stable at Parsons Green, Lillie Bridge, Barking and Hammersmith only, plus one at Edgware Road too I think.

I've heard that at the next timetable revision the Circle and the Hamm & City lines are to get their own dedicated trains. Whether the intenal route maps will be changed remains to be seen.

The reason for the change in fleet use is that LU want to introduce 'as many as possible' S7 trains on the Hamm & City line before the Olympics.

Simon
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

a warning for the future- the C & D stock will be getting replaced with a single fleet of S7 stock. Could be worse- at one point I'm pretty sure there was serious consideration given to running S8, in a single seating configuration, on the entire Sub-Surface lines network.

With digital displays rather than blinds, unless there's an announcement that says "This a is a Circle (etc) line train) there will be no way to tell if a train going to Hammersmith from Liverpool Street onwards is H&C or Circle, or if a train going to Edgeware Road from High Street Kensington onwards is District or Circle.

When the whole subsurface network has just these trains then it will be hellishly difficult to know a train's route just by looking at it.

In addition to the twin line display they should carry a red / green / yellow / pink light at the front.

Otherwise there will be a rise in the number of people going where they did not want to go (or not going where they wanted to go!).

This will be especially problematical for people who end up heading towards Finchley Road instead of Edgware Road! (or vice versa)

Simon

 

[causton]

Assuming the services offered are the same now as they will be* - where will the large confusion be? In just about every case if people know where the destination is geographically there is usually only one service from the station they are at to the station listed as the destination. Unless I'm missing some really obvious examples...

*i.e. no Aldgate - Edgware Road - Earls Court - Rayners Lane - Uxbridge services as well as the Aldgate - Baker St - HOTH - Uxbridge and situations like that!

 

[simple simon]

Assuming the services offered are the same now as they will be* - where will the large confusion be? In just about every case if people know where the destination is geographically there is usually only one service from the station they are at to the station listed as the destination. Unless I'm missing some really obvious examples...

*i.e. no Aldgate - Edgware Road - Earls Court - Rayners Lane - Uxbridge services as well as the Aldgate - Baker St - HOTH - Uxbridge and situations like that!

The trains will all look identical, especially on the southern side of the Circle.

Then again this is already so on the western side, and the world still survives.

In the days of red CO CP R stock the trains had headcodes which regular passengers would have known about.

Simon

 

[jopsuk]

shouldn't be a problem if the platform destination displays are in good working order- though a colour display on the front wouldn't actually be an awful idea. Far too sensible to work, perhaps? Some Japanese units have colour destination/train name displays on the front (a sort of 21st century headboard)

 

[jon0844]

Multicolour LEDs aren't exactly expensive.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

 

[Spoon]

With digital displays rather than blinds, unless there's an announcement that says "This a is a Circle (etc) line train) there will be no way to tell if a train going to Hammersmith from Liverpool Street onwards is H&C or Circle, or if a train going to Edgeware Road from High Street Kensington onwards is District or Circle.

Could you not tell by what platform it arrives at at Paddington? From my limited understanding of LU the Circle and H&C lines stop at different parts of the station.

I realise that's a fairly convoluted way of finding out.

 

[jopsuk]

The circle line stops at both sets of sub surface platforms at Paddington, as it travels in an "extended" circle. Anti-colockwise, the trains leave Edgeware Road, take the junction to the left that District line trains take, stop at Paddington on that line, follow the circle all the way to Edgeware Road again, and this time go "straight on" along the H&C to Hammersmith, calling at the other platforms at Paddington. They terminate at Hammersmith, and then do the whole thing in reverse.