Clansman

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HST43108

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Hi all.
I am curious about the Inverness based numbers for the Class 47s that were allocated for the Clansman service. I am assuming that they only travelled as far as Carlisle and where then electric hauled to London ?? Not sure if this is correct.
Perhaps someone can develop this especially in relation to diagrams and stock locations for servicing etc. Thanks
 
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Peter Mugridge

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I went on the Clansman from Euston all the way through to Inverness once ( late 1980s I think ) and I'm pretty sure the traction change was at Mossend Yard.
 

47271

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I don't know about individual loco numbers but what I do remember (and I was very small at the time!) is that the quantity of Scottish 47/4s capable of The Clansman grew substantially around 1982 when cascaded aircon mk2s appeared on the internal intercity routes. How many of those were Inverness based I'm not sure, Eastfield and Haymarket also would've had quite a few, you'd be best hunting online for one of the Ian Allan depot books of the era, that'll give you a good idea? Likewise your question on 37s in the other thread, I've posted a vague answer to that as well!

And yes, the traction change was definitely at Mossend and not Carlisle.
 

AJP62

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Both north and southbound Clansmans had long stops at Carlisle for watering purposes so it may look like a loco change was taking place. But it was Mossend where that happened.
 

sprinterguy

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Probably a little later than you were thinking, but for a period in the early nineties, between 1991 and 1994, Inverness had a dedicated sub-fleet of class 47s numbered 47671 - 677, which had a higher ETS rating than standard class 47s to cater primarily for the demands of the Inverness sleeper. They were often unreliable and were subsequently replaced, for a limited time, on the Inverness sleeper by pairs of no-heat 37s and generator vans. Four were absorbed into the Railnet programme (47671/672/673/675 becoming 47789/760/790/791 respectively) while a fifth (47674) was belatedly converted into the final "47/8" several years after the others, as 47854.

At the close of 1982, the Scottish region had the following train heat fitted class 47s on its' books:

47424 Eastfield
47427 Eastfield
47460 Eastfield
47461 Eastfield "Charles Rennie Mackintosh"
47464 Inverness
47467 Inverness
47469 Inverness
47470 Eastfield
47472 Inverness
47517 Eastfield
47541 Eastfield "The Queen Mother"
47546 Inverness
47550 Inverness "University of Dundee"
47562 Eastfield
47564 Eastfield
47570 Eastfield
47578 Eastfield

Plus 47701 - 712 converted in 1979 for use on the Edinburgh - Glasgow push-pull workings and allocated to Haymarket.

47424/427 transferred to Gateshead depot during 1983 and 47472 moved away at the end of the same year, while 47460/461 were reallocated to Inverness in 1983 and 1984 respectively, staying until 1990 when they were replaced by class 158s. 47464 was written off in a collision with 37416 on the Aberdeen - Inverness line in September 1986. 47492 arrived at Inverness in May of the same year.

As the eighties progressed and further locos were converted to electric train supply, additional class members were allocated to the Scottish region, including 47586/593/595/604/614/617/635 - 637/640 - 644. Most spent time allocated to Inverness at some point during the latter half of the eighties.
 
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AndrewE

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In the late '70s and '80s there was an absolute ban on "diesel under the wires" on the LMR, resulting in things like loco changes on excursion trains from the South to Salop at both New St and Wolverhampton! That may not be an accurate example, but it shows the principle.
I regret that I never went on the Clansman to do the route and see this loco change...
A
 

Johnuk123

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I had many journeys on the Clansman when it was on it's normal route and also when it went via Edinburgh from the late 80's.
 

HST43108

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That's brilliant information and many thanks to all, it's pulls together a trove of information. I never thought of the Ian Allan depot books but the above information is just what I was looking for.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks Peter, you are correct as you can see below.
 

sprinterguy

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1987 seems to have been the absolute zenith of class 47 operation on the Highland main line, in terms of liveries, namings and total number, so getting hold of an Ian Allan or Platform Five pocket book for 1987 or 1988 would seem ideal if you want the information available at a glance for future reference.

Something possibly worth noting is that, while all of the 47/7 "shove-duffs" wore it, 47461 "Charles Rennie Mackintosh" was the only 47/4 to carry the blue stripe Scotrail sector livery: The others of the sub-class that didn't retain large logo or some variant of BR blue livery gained Intercity executive livery, to match the Intercity liveried stock they would often haul on the likes of the Clansman and Inverness sleeper, but with "Scotrail" insignia and often embellished with yellow and black Inverness stag emblems.
 
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HST43108

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Yes very interesting that 47461 was only on with Scotrail branding, what could have been.
She had a premature end in Liverpool around 90/91 I remember.
There was quite an number of 47s in the Scottish pools. Apart from Highland line and Glassgow - Edinburgh what other routes where they on. I know they turned up a lot at Carlisle but I imagine they did their fair share up and down the East Coast too.
 

AJM580

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Looking back, Eastfield locos were also rostered for Carlisle - Glasgow via Kilmarnock, as well as the odd trip to Stranraer. Slightly off-topic, it wasn't unusual for Scottish 47s to wander a fair way south. I have photos of 47578 & 47593 at Norwich, and had 47633 on an Ipswich - Norwich run in 1986, barely a week after seeing it along the Devon coast!!!
 

HST43108

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Yes they went far and wide AJM580. When working Eastcoast diagrams South from Edinburgh I know it was common for Loco changes in Newcastle, in latter years I think they went through to Kings Cross and back, so if failed on the Cross it could easily get trapped in the system. Do you know what the East Coast arrangement were regarding through workings before HSTs operated end to end and how accurate I am with the above.
The Devon sighting may have been a through working from Glassgow on Cross Country or Summer Saturday's. It always amazed me the number off changes going South on these workings. Would have been great to see a western working through from Penzance to Glassgow and coming back the next day. I suppose the under the wires rules were a deterrent plus traction knowledge etc.
 
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