Class 155: Opinions

[61653 HTAFC]

You’re right and actually the original looked even better with the narrow yellow stripe.

How were the WYPTE units bought? Some on here say that WYPTE bought the units, which is kind of difficult to believe... how would they be able to afford them? And if that is the case, how are they now owned by the rolling stick companies?

I agree the first version of "Raspberry Ripple" livery looks much better, it's a good thing the 158s never got the revised version as it would have looked terrible on anything with their profile and finish!

I'm not sure how the PTE-owned units were funded, presumably some sort of Department of Transport grant or maybe even European Union funding:- I know some of the reopened stations (Streethouse and Featherstone for example) were EU-funded but I'll not open that can of worms!

At privatisation the only rolling stock owned by the PTE were the 7 class 155s and the 10 class 144 centre cars. These vehicles had been managed by Porterbrook on behalf of the PTE for some time, and the DfT forced their sale to Porterbrook- I think in return for not having quite as severe a funding cut as would otherwise have happened.

 

[Peter Bonner]

You’re right and actually the original looked even better with the narrow yellow stripe.

How were the WYPTE units bought? Some on here say that WYPTE bought the units, which is kind of difficult to believe... how would they be able to afford them? And if that is the case, how are they now owned by the rolling stick companies?

WYPTE also bought the158/9s.

Good question on how it was financed-any offers?

 

[GoneSouth]

WYPTE also bought the158/9s.

Good question on how it was financed-any offers?

Yes the 158s also looked great in that livery, one of the best looking trains ever in the north of England with the classy deep red and cream livery.

WYPTE had 144s, 155s and 158s as I remember. The 158s and 155s mainly stuck to the Caldervale line as METRO called it at the time.

This is not my picture, it can be found here

http://bdrs70d.com/CT_Pages/CT_liveries_dmus.htm

 

[Neptune]

WYPTE also bought the158/9s.

Good question on how it was financed-any offers?

Yes Metro wanted a follow on order of 10 further 155’s but Leyland were unable to fulfil the order so BREL offered them the 10 158/9’s instead which were given a revised imterior with only 1 toilet and only the small luggage racks throughout to give 4 extra seats.

 

[tom1649]

WYPTE had 144s, 155s and 158s as I remember.

Didn't they have 321901-3 as well, or were those owned by BR?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Didn't they have 321901-3 as well, or were those owned by BR?

They were owned by BR, as were the 10 158/9s. Those fleets had WYPTE "sponsorship" (for want of a better word) but weren't owned outright by the PTE. The 144 driving cars and 141s were in the same boat, as were the 307s and 308s.

 

[D365]

Yes Metro wanted a follow on order of 10 further 155’s but Leyland were unable to fulfil the order so BREL offered them the 10 158/9’s instead which were given a revised imterior with only 1 toilet and only the small luggage racks throughout to give 4 extra seats.

What a generous upgrade

 

[Helvellyn]

I've never understood why BR ordered the 35 Class 155 units (and WYPTE the additional 7 units) given that the Class 156 came along soon after and BR could have had a common fleet of 156 Class 156 units. (Strathclyde PTE sponsored 14 units, 156501-156514, so there was no reason that WYPTE couldn't have done similar. Especially as NL ended up with a decent sized Class 156 fleet as well.)

They were owned by BR, as were the 10 158/9s. Those fleets had WYPTE "sponsorship" (for want of a better word) but weren't owned outright by the PTE. The 144 driving cars and 141s were in the same boat, as were the 307s and 308s.

Yet the 10 Class 144 MS vehicles were owned by the PTE! Always thought it was odd they were built with four sets of doors (two per side) as given how pacers had doors at alternate sides in the centre you'd have thought they MS vehicles would have been so built as well.

 

[mjmason1996]

Maybe a little off topic, but I think I travelled on a 155 once many years ago but not sure as I was a child at the time. Was a metrotrain liveried 2 car unit running from York to Scarborough some time in the early 2000's. What's the bets this was a 155?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've never understood why BR ordered the 35 Class 155 units (and WYPTE the additional 7 units) given that the Class 156 came along soon after and BR could have had a common fleet of 156 Class 156 units. (Strathclyde PTE sponsored 14 units, 156501-156514, so there was no reason that WYPTE couldn't have done similar. Especially as NL ended up with a decent sized Class 156 fleet as well.)


Yet the 10 Class 144 MS vehicles were owned by the PTE! Always thought it was odd they were built with four sets of doors (two per side) as given how pacers had doors at alternate sides in the centre you'd have thought they MS vehicles would have been so built as well.

BR didn't like to put all it's eggs in one basket back then, which is why there were two different prototype Sprinter designs (150s and 151s) before the BREL design was given the bulk order. This was why two different Super Sprinters were ordered, albeit without doing the pre-production prototypes. 155s were presumably cheaper than 156s which is also why WYPTE's first-choice for the additional 10 units was more of the Leyland units. With hindsight 156s would have been a better choice than 155s, but would have cost more and may have taken longer to build as Metro-Cammell were busy building the Mk4s and then the Nightstar coaches at the time IIRC.

On the 144 motor standards, there's no toilet cubicle to make room for, so no need to omit one of the doors.

Maybe a little off topic, but I think I travelled on a 155 once many years ago but not sure as I was a child at the time. Was a metrotrain liveried 2 car unit running from York to Scarborough some time in the early 2000's. What's the bets this was a 155?

It'll have been a 155 or a 158, if you can remember whether it had opening windows or not, that'll differentiate between the two. Probably more likely to have been a 158, but 155s can't be ruled out entirely.

 

[6Gman]

WYPTE also bought the158/9s.

Good question on how it was financed-any offers?

I've no inside information on how the PTEs could finance them, but as a public body they were presumably similar to local authorities (which I did have experience of).

Each year there would be a capital programme of expenditure (i.e. buying things which formed a long-term asset). This could be funded in one of three ways:

* By use of capital receipts (we sell a piece of land and use the receipt to build a new leisure centre or whatever)
* By borrowing and putting the financing costs into the annual revenue budget
* By specific grant (from government, EU or others e.g. Lottery).

In the case of a PTE buying trains I suspect they used the last. To simplify greatly let's say each 144 centre car cost £300,000 and was expected to last 30 years. For those 30 years the PTE would need to provide revenue funding for 1/30th of the capital cost + interest (let's say 5% per annum). So - very roughly - they would need to budget for £17,500pa for the next 30 years.

Which also indicates why early withdrawal is frowned upon!

(Apologies to any accountants reading this who will frown on the oversimplification.)

 

[NewClee153]

Controversial, but I love them