Class 156 Corrosion Issues

[JModulo]

Evening all,

I've seen that a few of ScotRail's 156s have been stopped from service due to corrosion issues and parked until they are repaired. It seems quite poor given the extensive refurb they were given only a few years ago, although it questions how extensive it really was.

Does anyone know if any of the East Midlands or Northern ones are in a similiar state? I believe the issue is with the frame around the bogie centre castings.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Evening all,

I've seen that a few of ScotRail's 156s have been stopped from service due to corrosion issues and parked until they are repaired. It seems quite poor given the extensive refurb they were given only a few years ago, although it questions how extensive it really was.

Does anyone know if any of the East Midlands or Northern ones are in a similiar state? I believe the issue is with the frame around the bogie centre castings.

I’m not too sure, but 156501 and 504 have been out of service for many months. Doesn’t look good considering they aren’t long back from an overhaul.

 

[JModulo]

I’m not too sure, but 156501 and 504 have been out of service for many months. Doesn’t look good considering they aren’t long back from an overhaul.

501 is the first one to have been repaired. I believe 512, 504 as you've mentioned, and a few others are in the same state.

 

[Nym]

Refurbishment doesn't necessarily address anything but cosmetic issues, in fact, it's normally the case that's what's looked and felt is a much higher priority because that's what managers can see. They won't see a load of weld repair or corrosion management work.

 

[JModulo]

Refurbishment doesn't necessarily address anything but cosmetic issues, in fact, it's normally the case that's what's looked and felt is a much higher priority because that's what managers can see. They won't see a load of weld repair or corrosion management work.

Could be wrong but I'd have thought the C6 refurbishment would have included the areas affected given that the now new floor needs to be lifted.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I know when the 318s had their rebuild between 2005 and 2007, they picked up a number of corrosion issues due to the constant running next to the sea on the Ayrshire Coast. 156s do run by the sea, but not much, maybe thats the factor?

 

[JModulo]

I know when the 318s had their rebuild between 2005 and 2007, they picked up a number of corrosion issues due to the constant running next to the sea on the Ayrshire Coast. 156s do run by the sea, but not much, maybe thats the factor?

Wouldn't say they are near the sea that much. If that was the case any issues I'd have thought would've been picked up at overhaul. The extent of it is not something that just happens overnight.

 

[Llama]

Are the 52 end vehicles worse than the 57 ends?

Having seen the way they get tanked (hosepipe on until header tank overflows then leave it a few minutes to be sure) and noticed that the 52 end vehicles are always damp in the nooks and crannies, and regularly get overspill down the front of the unit when braking when the tank is full, it's not surprising.

I have a picture somewhere of proper mushrooms (not just the usual bit of mould) growing in the corner of the cab floor in a 156 52 car years ago.

 

[JModulo]

Are the 52 end vehicles worse than the 57 ends?

Having seen the way they get tanked (hosepipe on until header tank overflows then leave it a few minutes to be sure) and noticed that the 52 end vehicles are always damp in the nooks and crannies, and regularly get overspill down the front of the unit when braking when the tank is full, it's not surprising.

I have a picture somewhere of proper mushrooms (not just the usual bit of mould) growing in the corner of the cab floor in a 156 52 car years ago.

Area seems to be the outer of both 52 and 57 cars, requiring the non powered bogies to be removed. Theres been a few cases recently where I've been on the ScotRail ones and the carpets have been rather damp/mouldy around the outside of the toilet module.

 

[Nym]

Could be wrong but I'd have thought the C6 refurbishment would have included the areas affected given that the now new floor needs to be lifted.

Depends on what was de-scoped at the time.

 

[DaStripedCgull]

I’m not too sure, but 156501 and 504 have been out of service for many months. Doesn’t look good considering they aren’t long back from an overhaul.

501 was taken to Hamilton by road for corrosion repairs not sure about 504 though

 

[JModulo]

501 was taken to Hamilton by road for corrosion repairs not sure about 504 though

504 is now at Hamilton.

 

[simon7929]

A problem I've noticed for years. Is that when it rains. The water gets under the gangway door in to the cab. So I'm surprised the problems aren't around the cab area?

 

[Scotrail314209]

A problem I've noticed for years. Is that when it rains. The water gets under the gangway door in to the cab. So I'm surprised the problems aren't around the cab area?

Yeah, water tends to leak into the gangways too. Sometimes quite excessively.

Surely it should be a problem worth trying to rectify to prevent this sort of thing from happening?

 

[scotraildriver]

Not sure if it's related but a few units had plumbing issues after refurbishment resulting in considerable damp around the toilet and cab area. Sadly indicative of the terrible quality of work Glasgow works turned out during the refurbishment.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Not sure if it's related but a few units had plumbing issues after refurbishment resulting in considerable damp around the toilet and cab area. Sadly indicative of the terrible quality of work Glasgow works turned out during the refurbishment.

Wasn’t the refurbishment also half completed in a way, the units were a bit of a mess with them having different things done. I’m sure this isn’t the first time Glasgow Works done a bad job..

 

[7 Ingleborough]

If you want to see just how bad things can get, look up some of the photographs of GWR 150 units undergoing C6 work at Wolverton. The corrosion was so bad whole new bodysides and complete new roofs had to be fitted. New vehicles were not permitted, but personally I'm convinced the DfT would have changed their minds if shown how corroded these vehicles were. Some even had new solebar frames welded in as they were like lacework.
Some of the BR era bodges found included up to four layers of roof panels welded together and allowing a leak at one end of the vehicle to channel gallons of water to another in the middle of the 'sandwich'. On most there were long standing concealed 'lakes' of rusty water within the voids. When holes were drilled, dark brown water would flow out sometimes for over an hour.
The welding team at Wolverton commented that when built the grade of steel used on them was very low by modern standards, and going by the much better condition of the 150/1s bodywise, it would not surprise me if BR decided to save money on the 150/2s by going for cheaper steel. The 156s were built by competitive tender and in construction terms are very similar to 150/2, that said, I wish we had 156s instead of 150s.

 

[JModulo]

If you want to see just how bad things can get, look up some of the photographs of GWR 150 units undergoing C6 work at Wolverton. The corrosion was so bad whole new bodysides and complete new roofs had to be fitted. New vehicles were not permitted, but personally I'm convinced the DfT would have changed their minds if shown how corroded these vehicles were. Some even had new solebar frames welded in as they were like lacework.
Some of the BR era bodges found included up to four layers of roof panels welded together and allowing a leak at one end of the vehicle to channel gallons of water to another in the middle of the 'sandwich'. On most there were long standing concealed 'lakes' of rusty water within the voids. When holes were drilled, dark brown water would flow out sometimes for over an hour.
The welding team at Wolverton commented that when built the grade of steel used on them was very low by modern standards, and going by the much better condition of the 150/1s bodywise, it would not surprise me if BR decided to save money on the 150/2s by going for cheaper steel. The 156s were built by competitive tender and in construction terms are very similar to 150/2, that said, I wish we had 156s instead of 150s.

I know that having worked on buses produced by Metro Cammell the steel is of very poor quality and condition, and said buses had to have repairs made at only 2 years old. I can only presume by your comments above the trains must be the same, 156s, MK4s etc

 

[Tynwald]

The 156 shells where built by procor in Wakefield, if I remember rightly. These trains are 35 years old, with steel shells. Corrosion will always be an issue. There are some much more modern trains around with serious corrosion issues.

 

[Llama]

Were they all made there or were some 156 shells made in Heywood? I thought I saw a photo not long ago of a 156 shell on a low-loader there.

 

[PHILIPE]

When GWR were sending their 150s through Wolverton for refurbishment and PRM some of the former Wessex ones were there for months for corrosion to be attended to.

 

[hexagon789]

Not sure if it's related but a few units had plumbing issues after refurbishment resulting in considerable damp around the toilet and cab area. Sadly indicative of the terrible quality of work Glasgow works turned out during the refurbishment.

Is this why some units seem to have a sort of squishy feel to the carpet 'round the toilet area?

I've also noticed a musty smell on some which I assumed was down to the toilets but presumably is actually damp.

 

[JModulo]

Hopefully the photo has loaded ok, but theres been a few like this recently. Certainly if it is the case that plumbing fittings are still leaking it won't help.

 

[Parallel]

When GWR were sending their 150s through Wolverton for refurbishment and PRM some of the former Wessex ones were there for months for corrosion to be attended to.

I seem to remember that 150244 (or was it 150243?) was out of service for quite some time and one of the cab floors was reportedly in very poor/corroded condition.

 

[hexagon789]

Hopefully the photo has loaded ok, but theres been a few like this recently. Certainly if it is the case that plumbing fittings are still leaking it won't help.

View attachment 86926

Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I've seen on a few units. Not very nice and not a great imagine given the rest of the units interiors look quite fresh in comparison

 

[sprinterguy]

The 156 shells where built by procor in Wakefield, if I remember rightly. These trains are 35 years old, with steel shells. Corrosion will always be an issue. There are some much more modern trains around with serious corrosion issues.

Were they all made there or were some 156 shells made in Heywood? I thought I saw a photo not long ago of a 156 shell on a low-loader there.

118 body shells were assembled by Procor in Wakefield, 60 by W.H. Davis and the remaining 50 by Standard Wagon in Heywood.

 

[AMD]

I seem to remember that 150244 (or was it 150243?) was out of service for quite some time and one of the cab floors was reportedly in very poor/corroded condition.

A recent Northern refurb (150268) almost got written off because the corrosion was so bad.

 

[SC318250]

156504 booked at present to be middle unit on 1733 Glasgow Central to East Kilbride tonight

 

[lord rathmore]

As a previous poster rightly pointed out, these units are 35 years old. Eventually it becomes throwing good money after bad, and time for withdrawal. Economics will take them off the rails sooner or later, and hopefully before a serious engineering failure caused by the corrosion.

 

[hexagon789]

As a previous poster rightly pointed out, these units are 35 years old. Eventually it becomes throwing good money after bad, and time for withdrawal. Economics will take them off the rails sooner or later, and hopefully before a serious engineering failure caused by the corrosion.

I expect the 158s to go first actually, but time will tell.