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Class 15X Future

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clagmonster

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Andrew Holland said:
One weird thing this unit had (or once had?) CCTV cameras, there were little domes on the ceiling but inside them the camera modules themselves have been removed (or just not fitted yet?) leaving just wires dangling inside. What's that all about?
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The units were fitted with CCTV when in use with on the Western Region. The equipment was removed hen the units were cascaded north - I understand due to the equipment actually being owned by First Great Western. I have no idea whether Northern plan to install CCTV of their own.
 
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Parallel

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Andrew Holland said:
Have to agree with the comments above about Northern's 150s. Am an occasional user of trains up here and yesterday did a return trip from Bolton to Manchester. Got on a 150 on the way down, absolutely awful. Didn't note the number but it had pink/purple coloured handrails I think and was dark blue outside. The seating was old, dirty, sagging, the interior generally was dirty, tired-looking and scruffy, not sure when the unit last had a proper clean, if it ever has had at all. Hopper windows that wouldn't close but mind you, it was a relief they were open as it stank of diesel inside and the noise these things make when chundering along at full whack is appalling, I couldn't wait to get off 20 minutes later but it already felt more like longer. One weird thing this unit had (or once had?) CCTV cameras, there were little domes on the ceiling but inside them the camera modules themselves have been removed (or just not fitted yet?) leaving just wires dangling inside. What's that all about?.
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Yup, sounds like an ex GWR (FGW livered) 150/1. Some of those were in really grim condition when they were down south, and I’m not surprised that things haven’t improved. One of them had the floor lino/covering missing in one of the carriages! GWR operates CCTV so it’s probably left over from that.

Bletchleyite said:
The one I got on only had 6 rows in the section I was in (one of the end sections) and no side-facing seat, which made the legroom reasonable. I don't know how many are like that.
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IIRC most of the GWR Porterbook ones do, and they’ve been like that for as long as I can remember, must’ve been done under Wales & West or Wessex Trains.
 
507021

507021

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Personally, I can see the 156s, 158s and 159s being around for at least another 15-20 years.
 
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Plethora

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ed1971 said:
I have read that Transport For Wales is intending to replace it's Class 175s in the early 2020s. I was wondering as these units are still relatively youthful, if they could be deployed by Northern on suitable routes?
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If 175s are the answer, pray tell what is the question?

Reliability issues aside, I don't see them being a suitable replacement for 150s, though they would be a capacity upgrade from 156s. The further problem is the creation of another Northern micro fleet, and one that needs to be kept in the same rough geographic area. You'd need to retrain drivers and maintenance, and unless they're operating on a specific line drivers would need to gain and retain knowledge of more than one kind of traction. I can't think of a suitable line for them to run on where their topspeed would be helpful. Can they even run at SP differentials?
 
hexagon789

hexagon789

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507021 said:
Personally, I can see the 156s, 158s and 159s being around for at least another 15-20 years.
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I agree. Most probably receiving another refurbishment of they've not already been done.

I think the 153s will be the first to go, followed by the 150/1s within the next 5 years then the 150/2s within the next 10.
 
507021

507021

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hexagon789 said:
I agree. Most probably receiving another refurbishment of they've not already been done.

I think the 153s will be the first to go, followed by the 150/1s within the next 5 years then the 150/2s within the next 10.
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Yeah, I reckon that's quite likely, with the 155s being withdrawn at the same time as the 150/2s.
 
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thenorthern

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I heard talk a couple of years ago that the Class 153s will be converted back to 155s at some point in the future.

With the Class 159s I think if and when they are replaced it will probably be with a bi-mode unit that can work with diesel and 3rd rail.
 
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PHILIPE

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thenorthern said:
I heard talk a couple of years ago that the Class 153s will be converted back to 155s at some point in the future.

With the Class 159s I think if and when they are replaced it will probably be with a bi-mode unit that can work with diesel and 3rd rail.
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153s will not be converted back to 155s. This has been frequently discussed on here and it would be far too costly especially when their time may be limited. It's more than just attaching 2 togethe,r having read that they would have to be rewired and this has come from an Engineering point of view.
 
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Bletchleyite

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PHILIPE said:
153s will not be converted back to 155s. This has been frequently discussed on here and it would be far too costly especially when their time may be limited. It's more than just attaching 2 togethe,r having read that they would have to be rewired and this has come from an Engineering point of view.
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I still don't get why there would be any need to rewire them. Just couple back to back, fit a disabled bog in one, remove the bog entirely from the other, and lock the cabs OOU.
 
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Bletchleyite

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K.o.R said:
Those look suspiciously similar to Tyne & Wear Metrocars...
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They do a bit, but they're actually based on the Hamburg U-Bahn DT1 and DT2 units. I'd only seen (and ridden) them on the Hamburg AKN network (which is a sort of DMU extension of the Hamburg U-Bahn, with U-Bahn style stations, ticketing and a Taktfahrplan), didn't know any had got anywhere else.
 
centraltrains

centraltrains

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sprinterguy said:
Respectfully, it wasn't: The 150s on the Snow Hill lines were cramped, noisy, dated things with lousy seats and poor window layout. The 172s represented a hugely beneficial improvement in service quality and I was always grateful that I only started regularly commuting on the Snow Hill lines after they were introduced, and the 150s were ousted to Northernland where they continue to be cramped, noisy and dated but with a lick of white paint.
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Don't spoil the rosy off-peak childhood memories some of us have of them!!! I certainly look forward to them on heritage railways, hopefully in Central Trains livery!
 
anamyd

anamyd

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ed1971 said:
One of the first places to have DMUs with Cummins NTA855R engines was Australia. Amongst these were the New South Wales 1200 Class Railcars built in the early 1970s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_1200_class_railcar

A bit of research reveals that the NTA855 is still produced for gensets: https://www.cummins.com/g-drive-engines/diesel-nt855-series

The Perkins 2006-TWH Phaser engines fitted to some 158s and all 165s and 166 has it's origins in the Rolls Royce Eagle design.
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great info!
 
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whhistle

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Mikey C said:
....they'll be much improved and possibly a better investment that new DMUs which could find themselves being banned after 20 years.
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But they wouldn't be banned.
The government wants to ban the sale of diesels after 2040.
Any purchased before then are fine to operate after.
 
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hwl

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whhistle said:
But they wouldn't be banned.
The government wants to ban the sale of diesels after 2040.
Any purchased before then are fine to operate after.
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What they said for road and rail early last year were similar but different.
Road is a new fossil only ban from 2040
Rail is a fossil (diesel) only ban from 2040, note lack of the word "new". Hence lots of retrofitting MTU style hybrid rafts to DMUs in the late 2030s... unless they come out of the factory now as bi-mode or tri-mode of some flavour.
 
sprinterguy

sprinterguy

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Plethora said:
If 175s are the answer, pray tell what is the question?

Reliability issues aside, I don't see them being a suitable replacement for 150s, though they would be a capacity upgrade from 156s. The further problem is the creation of another Northern micro fleet, and one that needs to be kept in the same rough geographic area. You'd need to retrain drivers and maintenance, and unless they're operating on a specific line drivers would need to gain and retain knowledge of more than one kind of traction. I can't think of a suitable line for them to run on where their topspeed would be helpful. Can they even run at SP differentials?
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They could certainly stretch their legs on the Preston - Carnforth section of the Manchester Airport - Barrow service. I would consider the 175s appropriate for many of the Manchester-centric 'Northern Connect' services, such as the Caldervale services including Leeds - Chester. This would allow 195s to replace 150s on commuter services, as noted previously, for which they would seem to be well suited with one-third door positions and spartan looking interiors.

175s cannot take advantage of Sprinter differentials, however this doesn't seem to have had a damaging effect on schedules where they replaced Sprinter units on Manchester - Cardiff and the North Wales coast.
centraltrains said:
Don't spoil the rosy off-peak childhood memories some of us have of them!!! I certainly look forward to them on heritage railways, hopefully in Central Trains livery!
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I certainly have a nostalgic affection for Sprinters in general, and to be fair I'm probably one of the comparative few who has experienced one on a preserved line, as I travelled on the London Midland 150 farewell tour a few years back, which traversed the length of the Severn Valley Railway. It was a good excuse for a piss up. :p I'll be giving them a wide berth when they do get preserved, but I wouldn't mind seeing a 150/1, or one of the prototypes, restored to original condition.
 
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