Class 170s/185s to Irish Rail?

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anamyd

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Continous Automatic Warning System, like British AWS but with an in-cab display that shows the current signal aspect and then updates to that of the next signal before you can even see it.
thanks :) I think I know what it means now :D
 

craigybagel

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Continuous Automatic Warning System. It's similar to and arguably better than the GBs AWS.
Except with the caveat that Irish Rail doesn't have TPWS or anything similar (other then DART which does have a very basic form of ATP fitted), and that unlike AWS in the UK CAWS is not fitted on all lines. It only works as part of track circuited signalling - and not axle counters, which were used for the mass resignalling projects of the formerly token worked single track lines that took place since the millennium. As a result in many parts of the country there is no form of protection whatsoever, even on busy routes like Athlone to Galway.

This might seem off topic, but it's worth pointing out that as a result of it's limitations, and the fact it's life expired a replacement both for CAWS and the DART's ATP is being worked on, which presumably will need fitting to whatever units are acquired (be they second hand from the UK or New Build).
 

squizzler

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This might seem off topic, but it's worth pointing out that as a result of it's limitations, and the fact it's life expired a replacement both for CAWS and the DART's ATP is being worked on, which presumably will need fitting to whatever units are acquired (be they second hand from the UK or New Build).
I read elsewhere that Irish rail is 'developing' a replacement for their existing warning system, implying that they are getting out the breadboards and soldering irons and having a go at rolling their own. Presumably any future system will be a flavour of ETCS, or am I wrong?
 

craigybagel

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I read elsewhere that Irish rail is 'developing' a replacement for their existing warning system, implying that they are getting out the breadboards and soldering irons and having a go at rolling their own. Presumably any future system will be a flavour of ETCS, or am I wrong?

https://cpcprojectservices.com/iris...s-jv-deliver-new-train-protection-system-tps/

Irish Rail (Iarnród Éireann) has appointed Turas, a joint venture between CPC Project Services (CPC), Deutsche Bahn and Egis, to deliver a new train protection system across its network.

Currently over 50% of the Irish network has no automatic train protection, and the existing train protection systems in operation – Continuous Automatic Warning System (CAWS) and Automatic Train Protection (ATP) – are nearing the end of their life expectancy. The seven-year programme will deliver safety and reliability improvements for the 45 million passengers travelling on the network each year.

Turas was appointed through a competitive OJEU selection process in January 2019 and will act as Irish Rail’s Delivery Partner, providing a range of consultancy and technical services including project and programme management, commercial and cost management, systems integration and safety case management.
 

F Great Eastern

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The deal for the 185s has now broken down - Eversholt could not give the assurances of the availability of the units in a timeframe that was acceptable and therefore it's dead.

The 170s are not being actively sought at the moment and attention may turn elsewhere but it may well end up that the unlucky folks on the Emerald Isle have to wait a few years before they get new additional carriages.
 

anamyd

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The deal for the 185s has now broken down - Eversholt could not give the assurances of the availability of the units in a timeframe that was acceptable and therefore it's dead.

The 170s are not being actively sought at the moment and attention may turn elsewhere but it may well end up that the unlucky folks on the Emerald Isle have to wait a few years before they get new additional carriages.
what 170s...? what with some of ScotRail's having gone to Northern, ScotRail keeping their remaining allocation, Transport for Wales getting all of Greater Anglia's, CrossCountry keeping all of theirs, and supposedly all of West Midlands Railway's going to East Midlands Railway, leaving no 170s spare...
 

anamyd

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Pacers.

I’ll get my coat.
No, the UK Government are launching a competition to see the Pacers turned into public spaces, such as "village halls" and "cafés". They don't mind removing the Pacers from the tracks, but they don't want them gone entirely.
 

RealTrains07

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Which is why those are the two options that they've been looking at. Either 185s or 170s that's been the case from the outset. It does seem that, at the very least, the 185s have been potentially discounted as they won't be available within the required time span. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar ends up happening with the 170s. It seems unlikely, to be quite honest, that any suitable rolling stock will be available within the timescales that Iarnród Éireann require them in to fill the gap between now and the arrival of new rolling stock (let's not forget that the whole point of this was they wanted something quick to cover until they can carry out a full procurement exercise for long term additional stock).
I agree, i honestly cant see the spare 170s being taken up quickly by other operators since their is alot of them all over the shop compared to 185s which are exclusive to tpe and not all if the units ate being binned by tpe anyway
 

anamyd

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I agree, i honestly cant see the spare 170s being taken up quickly by other operators since their is alot of them all over the shop compared to 185s which are exclusive to tpe and not all if the units ate being binned by tpe anyway
what spare 170s...?
 

anamyd

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Soon to be spare 170s
which 170s will be spare...?

of the 119 170s:
  • ScotRail have 39 (35 /4s and 4 /3s)
  • CrossCountry have 29 (17 /1s, 6 /5s, 4 /6s and 2 /3s)
  • West Midlands Railway have 23 (17 /5s and 6 /6s). It has been worked out that these units are likely to transfer to East Midlands Railway in 2020 once WMR's 196s are all in service.
  • Northern have 16 (16 /4s only)
  • ...and Greater Anglia have 12 (12 /2s only). These units will all be transferring to Transport for Wales starting from October 2019 once GA have a sufficient amount of 755s in service.
So what are these "spare" 170s you speak of...?
 

RealTrains07

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which 170s will be spare...?

of the 119 170s:
  • ScotRail have 39 (35 /4s and 4 /3s)
  • CrossCountry have 29 (17 /1s, 6 /5s, 4 /6s and 2 /3s)
  • West Midlands Railway have 23 (17 /5s and 6 /6s). It has been worked out that these units are likely to transfer to East Midlands Railway in 2020 once WMR's 196s are all in service.
  • Northern have 16 (16 /4s only)
  • ...and Greater Anglia have 12 (12 /2s only). These units will all be transferring to Transport for Wales starting from October 2019 once GA have a sufficient amount of 755s in service.
So what are these "spare" 170s you speak of...?
Well apologies i clearly wasnt aware of a potential future of the WMR 170s or the GA 170s transferring to wales. I guess we dont have many available 170s aswell then
 

anamyd

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Well apologies i clearly wasnt aware of a potential future of the WMR 170s or the GA 170s transferring to wales. I guess we dont have many available 170s aswell then
Well apologies i clearly wasnt aware of a potential future of the WMR 170s or the GA 170s transferring to wales. I guess we dont have many available 170s aswell then
it's fine, you didn't know. WMR ---> EMR hasn't been confirmed (but it's been worked out to be what will likely happen) but GA ---> TfW has been the plan since 2018
 

RealTrains07

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it's fine, you didn't know. WMR ---> EMR hasn't been confirmed (but it's been worked out to be what will likely happen) but GA ---> TfW has been the plan since 2018
Interesting so many rumours flying about concerning 185 and 170 futures. All to do with EMR funnily enough.

Hopefully when EMR give us more info regarding stock changeovers we then get a better idea on exact numbers of units available to convert and send to ireland

I doubt it will be lots of hopefully some will end up with the irish at some point
 

craigybagel

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Buses replacing trains?

(and I mean real buses, not Pacers!)
Continued overcrowding. Its not that these trains are required for replacing existing trains, or for expansion on to new lines. The current service would continue, just with the overcrowding that goes with it.
 

anamyd

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Interesting so many rumours flying about concerning 185 and 170 futures. All to do with EMR funnily enough.

Hopefully when EMR give us more info regarding stock changeovers we then get a better idea on exact numbers of units available to convert and send to ireland

I doubt it will be lots of hopefully some will end up with the irish at some point
Reading earlier posts, the 185 Ireland deal broke down, and I doubt EMR would want 185s either. 170s on the other hand, it's looking like EMR would want them, and Ireland apparently isn't actively seeking them.
 

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