Class 172 Refurbishment/Snow Hill Capacity

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Old Hill Bank, 16 Jul 2018.

  1. Old Hill Bank

    Old Hill Bank Member

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    Well the timetable change hiatus has put the cat amongst the pigeons but the Class 710 thread included a comment that a 172 had been released. Is this true? Can Snow Hill Lines have have a capacity boost at the end of the year. Has the 172 been released, if so where is it?
     
    Last edited: 16 Jul 2018
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  3. HLE

    HLE Established Member

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    Apparently so. Tyseley
     
    Last edited: 16 Jul 2018
  4. 1179_Clee2

    1179_Clee2 Member

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    Rail magazine 857

    A 172/0 has been removed from traffic for assessment by owners Angel Trains and WMR ahead of the transfer.
    The Barking-Gospel Oak Rail user Group (BGORUG) are upset because they claim this is causing capacity busting trains to be withdrawn from the route.
    BGORUG Secretary Glenn Wallis said "This is the final kick in the teeth for our passengers. They've endured months without trains due to electrification and now the trains are back they get a reduction in service"
     
  5. HLE

    HLE Established Member

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    Can see their point to be fair.

    How much longer does it add to the journey times if the goblin is shut? Are there alternative underground services to get people from A to B?
     
  6. Old Hill Bank

    Old Hill Bank Member

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    I can fully understand Glenn having concerns about this but it must be about getting 710s in service not stopping other routes getting capacity improvements.
     
  7. 1179_Clee2

    1179_Clee2 Member

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    From the same RAIL article

    Diesel 172/0 trains are having to run in place of four car electric 710/2 that should be in traffic, but have yet to run due to late construction of the trains by Bombardier.
    TfL told RAIL that it is working with London Overground, Bombardier and Arriva Rail London (which operates LO) so that the diesel trains will not be transferred until the 710's enter traffic which is expected to be by November.
    While electrically powered passenger trains have yet to run on the line, freight trains hauled by electric traction have begun operating.
     
  8. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Don't suppose it'd be worth training drivers on 319s or some other currently spare EMUs... but then again, it was apparently worth it for Scotrail on the 365s, despite the 385 issues not being as severe or time-consuming to fix as was initially feared.
     
  9. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    The issue that LO have that Scotrail didn't is DOO - any stand in train that they operate would need to be capable of DOO, but more importantly DOO self sufficiency - ie no platform mounted equipment. 319s and 315s don't have in cab monitors and would need monitors/mirrors putting up on platforms to enable them to run. Scotrail could just put a guard on board (once they'd agreed how they would operate the train) and away they went.
     
  10. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Good point. Not being staff or from areas with DOO (and long may that continue!), I'd remembered that LO is DOO now, but forgotten that that needs certain things in place to work.
     
  11. HLE

    HLE Established Member

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    And it’s been said on here before that no new DOO can be installed in the UK on stations, it has to be on the train itself
     
  12. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Apart from all the on platform cameras on crossrail platforms wirelessly linked to the screens in the 345s cabs.
    Ditto New Tube for London.
     
  13. 332 > 444

    332 > 444 Member

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    DOO cameras has been installed at the stations in Heathrow as recently as 2014, when did this come into effect? Waste of time now as the 332s are going but that's off topic.
     
  14. HLE

    HLE Established Member

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    Must just be the mirrors then. I’ve definitely seen it mentioned on the southern DOO thread amongst others
     
  15. Class 466

    Class 466 Member

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    172002 is the unit in question. Means all the peaktime PIXC (Passengers In eXcess of Capacity) buster trains are now withdrawn as that would require 7/7 units to be available which, given the unreliability of those 172s, wasn’t ever on the cards.
     
  16. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Required for platform edge doors in the Crossrail core tunnels. Does not really create a precedent for the rest of the normal national network.
     
  17. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    Apart from the London Overground Class 172s not having end gangways, what else is different to the WMT Class 172s?
     
  18. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    No toilet would be the obvious thing... and being only 2-car (unless WMT have some 2-car units that is).
     
  19. kje7812

    kje7812 Member

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    Yep, 12 two car units at the moment. Often they are paired up with another 2 car or a 3 car.
     
  20. HLE

    HLE Established Member

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    Being fitted to 172002 so we are told
     
  21. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    AFAIK it was always planned to fit loos once they left the GOBLIN, but at present they don't have them. Surprised if they've already started fitting one considering the delays to the 710s.
     
  22. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    172002 being the unit that has been sent to Tyseley, it's no longer a GOBLIN unit.
     
  23. DenmarkRail

    DenmarkRail Member

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    I may have interpreted this wrong, or just dreamt it, but weren't they being fitted with the gangway cabs?
     
  24. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    What I meant was, I'm surprised they've released one from the GOBLIN before their replacements are ready.
     
  25. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    If they were, wouldn't that entail a trip to Derby to have the work done when it's probably easier to just keep them as they are?
     
  26. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    They didn't really have a choice - AIUI they were supposed to have released all of them by now, so releasing one is better (from WMRs perspective) than releasing none. Obviously LO would have preferred to release none but at the same time this should give them some more leverage over Bombardier.
     
  27. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Unfortunately releasing units becomes a contractual obligation once the dates have been agreed, and you can't back out, even if their replacements have failed to appear. It's been a real problem for ScotRail, who have had to release 170s long before the 385s were ready. We've had short formations on Edinburgh - Glasgow trains for months.
     
  28. Fincra5

    Fincra5 Established Member

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    Although as DOO goes its probably the better version compared to BodySide Cameras.
     
  29. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Does WMR actually need them yet? Didn't think any improvements were due yet, though it isn't my area so I'm not sure.
     
  30. HLE

    HLE Established Member

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    Probably refurbing the first one before sending out on crew training. So when the other 7 get sent up they can go into service more or less straightaway.

    The 153’s are meant to be transferring to EMT in December. All a domino effect!
     
  31. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    My understanding is that they were due to be in use from the December 2018 timetable on Coventry services. However of course recently the December timetable change was postponed so it's possible that they won't actually be needed as originally intended, although they won't go amiss in terms of releasing other units for refurb.
     

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