Class 175s on Birmingham International to Shrewsbury

FLIRTfan18

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I've noticed today that Transport for Wales have been operating more trains stopping at all stations in the morning and evening on the line between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton, like they did on Sundays pre-pandemic. And that has resulted tonight in a Class 175 (of which I believe there is usually just one diagram per week on a Sunday night) operating a stopping service on the line. The first purpose of this thread is to ask whether anyone knows if a Class 175 has ever done a stopping at all stations service on the line before?
The second purpose is to try to understand the background of why they are ever actually used on the line only once a week. One could suggest it is to maintain route capability in case they are needed for cover, but the situation a couple of months ago when there was a lack of 158s did not seem to lead to the appearance of any 175s at all, only 150s and 153s. Does anyone know of any particular thinking behind keeping the diagram going?
Please feel free to move this if it is in the wrong forum.
 
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LowLevel

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I've noticed today that Transport for Wales have been operating more trains stopping at all stations in the morning and evening on the line between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton, like they did on Sundays pre-pandemic. And that has resulted tonight in a Class 175 (of which I believe there is usually just one diagram per week on a Sunday night) operating a stopping service on the line. The first purpose of this thread is to ask whether anyone knows if a Class 175 has ever done a stopping at all stations service on the line before?
The second purpose is to try to understand the background of why they are ever actually used on the line only once a week. One could suggest it is to maintain route capability in case they are needed for cover, but the situation a couple of months ago when there was a lack of 158s did not seem to lead to the appearance of any 175s at all, only 150s and 153s. Does anyone know of any particular thinking behind keeping the diagram going?
Please feel free to move this if it is in the wrong forum.

They used to regularly work the Sunday stopping service in the evening up until the West Midlands service was reintroduced a couple of years ago. There was an evening Birmingham to Crewe/Holyhead via Shrewsbury that was booked for one.
 

FLIRTfan18

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They used to regularly work the Sunday stopping service in the evening up until the West Midlands service was reintroduced a couple of years ago. There was an evening Birmingham to Crewe/Holyhead via Shrewsbury that was booked for one.
Thanks for that, the first of my questions is answered!
 

PHILIPE

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TFW Birmingham International services work primarily Holyhead and Cambrian services which interchange by working Birmingham/Aberystwyth/Birmingham/Holyhead/Birmingham but because only 158s can work on the Cambrian everything has to be 158 booked. Before COVID which brought a reduced Timetable there was Mondays to Fridays a 0705 Birmingham International to Llandudno which was booked for a 175. Earlier in the year the Cambrian west of Shrewsbury was closed for bridge works for 6 weeks and that provided an opportunity for a 175 to occasionally work between Birmingham and Shrewsbury.
Diagrams are complex and work fits in like jig saw pieces. The one on a Sunday night for example does other work during the day and by virtue of it's work drops onto it at Holyhead and also a 175 is required to be at Shrewsbury for start of work on Monday. They still work the Sunday night one.
 
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FLIRTfan18

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TFW Birmingham International services work primarily Holyhead and Cambrian services which interchange by working Birmingham/Aberystwyth/Birmingham/Holyhead/Birmingham but because only 158s can work on the Cambrian everything has to be 158 booked. Before COVID which brought a reduced Timetable there was Mondays to Fridays a 0705 Birmingham International to Llandudno which was booked for a 175. Earlier in the year the Cambrian west of Shrewsbury was closed for bridge works for 6 weeks and that provided an opportunity for a 175 to occasionally work between Birmingham and Shrewsbury
So been as 158s can't couple to 175s (unless I'm mistaken) the cover will usually come in the form of a 150 or a 153 until Shrewsbury unless both units of a 4 car 158 are unavailable in which case it would have to be cancelled beyond Shrewsbury. So my point really is that 175s aren't really necessary on the line. They operate a very small amount of services that could easily be done by a 158 and when cover is needed on another service it makes more sense to turn to a 150 or 153 in the vast majority of cases
 

PHILIPE

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So been as 158s can't couple to 175s (unless I'm mistaken) the cover will usually come in the form of a 150 or a 153 until Shrewsbury unless both units of a 4 car 158 are unavailable in which case it would have to be cancelled beyond Shrewsbury. So my point really is that 175s aren't really necessary on the line. They operate a very small amount of services that could easily be done by a 158 and when cover is needed on another service it makes more sense to turn to a 150 or 153 in the vast majority of cases

Route availability and traction knowledge is no problem so there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't work over the route if and when required. .The reason they regularly don't is because 158s have to work over the Cambrian so by that yardstick 150s and 153s shouldn't either. First time I've ever heard that argument I think.
 

asdirective

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The Sunday night 175 serves all stops between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton both ways:



Pre covid, there also used to be a 2325ish Monday to Saturday 175 from Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton that served all stops, and then returned from Wolverhampton serving Telford and Wellington only.

As has been indicated before, the use of 158s only on the Cambrian, makes it impossible to use them during the day, as Cambrian services become Holyhead services and vice versa at International. So they are mainly restricted to early and late turns only, or when absolutely necessary.

Pre covid, the direct Holyhead train via Stafford was a 175 as well. It arrived International around the same time as the stopper from Shrewsbury. So it was not unheard of to have 2 separate 175 units parked up at International at the same time on a Sunday night.
 

FLIRTfan18

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Route availability and traction knowledge is no problem so there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't work over the route if and when required. .The reason they regularly don't is because 158s have to work over the Cambrian so by that yardstick 150s and 153s shouldn't either. First time I've ever heard that argument I think.
What I meant is that 158s usually operate in pairs and so if there is a problem of some sort there'll usually just be one of the two units missing. As 175s can't couple to 158s, it makes much more sense to make it a 4 carriage service as far as Shrewsbury at least by connecting the surviving 158 unit to either a 150 or 153 (or indeed a pair of them), which is what usually happens and so is why the 175s in particular hardly ever find themselves on the line.
I guess there's no harm keeping them on a diagram a week or so though, I was just wondering whether they actually need to use them on that single diagram a week for whatever reason (ie no 158s available, which seems unlikely late on a Sunday) or whether it's just to keep crew familiar with them on the line
 

PHILIPE

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What I meant is that 158s usually operate in pairs and so if there is a problem of some sort there'll usually just be one of the two units missing. As 175s can't couple to 158s, it makes much more sense to make it a 4 carriage service as far as Shrewsbury at least by connecting the surviving 158 unit to either a 150 or 153 (or indeed a pair of them), which is what usually happens and so is why the 175s in particular hardly ever find themselves on the line.
I guess there's no harm keeping them on a diagram a week or so though, I was just wondering whether they actually need to use them on that single diagram a week for whatever reason or whether it's just to keep crew familiar with them on the line

If it isn't a diagram that has to be 2 x 158s there is no reason at all why as many 175s as you like can work over the route. There is no argument here.

 
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sd0733

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Pre covid, the direct Holyhead train via Stafford was a 175 as well. It arrived International around the same time as the stopper from Shrewsbury. So it was not unheard of to have 2 separate 175 units parked up at International at the same time on a Sunday night.
It still is a 3 car 175 diagram, today is a 158 as it's just a Crewe to International and back due to engineering but normally comes from Holyhead and ends on Chester
 

Rich McLean

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Also when short of 158s, they split the service at Shrewsbury for the Cambrian so a set swap occurs. This means 150s can be sent vice 158s on the Birmingham leg, while the 158s from the Cambrian then travel back there. They both arrive in Shrewsbury around the same time with lengthy dwells to facilitate this.
 

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