Class 180's to.....Northern?

[Techniquest]

Indeed it isn't! I had forgotten they came into Victoria, so you can imagine my surprise to see it when it squealed in!

 

[ffcphone]

seen both 180s. Wasn't able to check engine status of first. Second one i only heard 3 peaks as we passed! Surely my hearing this time?

 

[driver9000]

seen both 180s. Wasn't able to check engine status of first. Second one i only heard 3 peaks as we passed! Surely my hearing this time?

both on all 5 today

 

[ffcphone]

i presume when one isn't working on all 5 it's due to mechanical failure rather than driver/software selection like the 185s?

 

[driver9000]

i presume when one isn't working on all 5 it's due to mechanical failure rather than driver/software selection like the 185s?

Normally an electrical fault upsets the TMS and it shuts the engine down thinking there is a fault, its normally easy to reset but with only having a few seconds at each station and being able to cope on 4 engines easily its not worth delaying the train - its not doing it any harm. There is no Eco-mode fitted to the 180 as far as Im aware its unique to the 185.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

What is this weeks stored unit?

 

[driver9000]

What is this weeks stored unit?

Today is supposed to be swap over day with the spare set running ECS early afternoon to Blackpool LMD and the driver will take one back to NH to become the spare. 180103 and 180106 were at Blackpool yesterday so if the ECS runs 180108 should be in traffic next week with either 180103 or 180106 being at NH.

 

[ffcphone]

108 seems to have engine under coach C isolated this morning. I wonder how may times Northern's 180s have operated on all 5 engines?

 

[driver9000]

108 does indeed have coach C engine isolated, they run on 5 engines quite regularly 180106 seems to be the better one at keeping all 5 running. Running on 4 engines isnt much of a problem they will still do 100mph when given the rare opportunity to do so.

At the moment I think its only 108 in service it definitely was the only one on Monday and Tuesday after 106 failed in the afternoon on Monday being replaced by a 150 and a 156 covered its work on Tuesday.

 

[222001]

Seems Northern are having similar problems as Hull Trains are regarding availablity then!

 

[ffcphone]

108 does indeed have coach C engine isolated, they run on 5 engines quite regularly 180106 seems to be the better one at keeping all 5 running. Running on 4 engines isnt much of a problem they will still do 100mph when given the rare opportunity to do so.

At the moment I think its only 108 in service it definitely was the only one on Monday and Tuesday after 106 failed in the afternoon on Monday being replaced by a 150 and a 156 covered its work on Tuesday.

From what I read on the net, the 180s seem to have poor engine reliability when compared with other units of a similar age. Wikipedia says they are fitted with Cummins QSK19 engines, the same engines on the 220 and 221 Voyagers and the -R variant of which is fitted to the 185s if my understanding is correct.

Can we therefore expect issues to arise with all these around the 10 year mark or are the problems commented about largely over-played?

I've yet to travel on a 180 but my commute to work in the morning usually enables me to see the 0755 Bolton to Manchester Victoria service (booked to be a 180) before my train arrives. And usually about 5-10 mins behind I pass another 180 also going towards Manchester. On my commute home, I tend to pass both 180s Blackpool-bound. It is therefore somewhat of a "game" trying to identify the isolated engines as, in my experience, more often than not at least one has been isolated.

Do you know what the issue with 106 is?

F

 

[222001]

I don't think it is an engine issue. Hull Trains ran their 222s (with QSK19Rs in them) and they got awarded the golden spanner for the best realiablity in the country. But some of the 220/221s engines are starting to sound quite dodgy!

 

[Pumbaa]

Can we therefore expect issues to arise with all these around the 10 year mark or are the problems commented about largely over-played?

As someone else has commented on another forum I think, the problem is the ****ty control circuits and stuff, the bits that Alstom put in.

OOC managed to get them to a respectable level towards the end of their time at fGW. Given time, I am confident that Crofton can do this also.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can we therefore expect issues to arise with all these around the 10 year mark or are the problems commented about largely over-played?

As someone else has commented on another forum I think, the problem is the ****ty control circuits and stuff, the bits that Alstom put in.

OOC managed to get them to a respectable level towards the end of their time at fGW. Given time, I am confident that Crofton can do this also.

 

[tbtc]

If both Northern and Hull Trains are having problems with their 180s, then I dread to think how bad things will be on the ECML when Hull Trains, NXEC and GU/GC all have their own "mini" fleets of these things. It's all going to go horribly wrong at this rate, especially with each little fleet having little in "reserve"

 

[Andrew]

It's all going to go horribly wrong at this rate, especially with each little fleet having little in "reserve"

One of the best bits about BR, and the worst of small Open Access operations.

 

[driver9000]

No idea what happened to cause 180106 to fail but it was back in traffic today.

 

[ffcphone]

106 in service this morning but coach c isolated.

 

[ffcphone]

108 seems to have only 3 engines operating. Plus it had difficulty maintaining full acceleration out of Bolton. Wet tracks and 60% traction be the cause?

 

[northernbored]

108 seems to have only 3 engines operating. Plus it had difficulty maintaining full acceleration out of Bolton. Wet tracks and 60% traction be the cause?

Most likely

 

[ffcphone]

103 looked to be running on only 3 or 4 engines just now. B, C and E defo running. A defo not. Not sure about D.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
108 operating with A and E isolated. What price a fully operational unit?

 

[GNERman]

about adelantes - do they need all 5 engines at 125mph?...

 

[mbonwick]

No. Just take longer to get there without all of them.

 

[222001]

If it is anything like the class 22x they should be able to run on 3 engines and still keep time. 2 engines left and it is classed a failure?

 

[driver9000]

Yes they can manage fine on 3 engines, any less and they will struggle and tend to be removed from traffic. Naturally they will take longer to reach high linespeeds

 

[ffcphone]

108 operation on 4 this morning. A isolated. I'm determined to see a 180 with all 5 working!

 

[Jordy]

Wouldn't be surprised if its purposely isolated, no need for all 5 engines on the Northern services!

Hull trains seem to run on anything between 2 and 5 from what i've seen!

 

[Hampshire Unit]

I don't believe this! Can we expect to see them on the Island Line then too?

Don’t knock the Island line its not big and its not clever. Lol :roll:

 

[Waverley125]

is it just me, or would be it be much more sensible to send the 180s to TPE for use on Liverpool-Newcastle services? Or if not, the York-Leeds-Bradford-Halifax-Preston-Blackpool services rather than just shuttling between Manchester and Blackpool?

 

[MCR247]

is it just me, or would be it be much more sensible to send the 180s to TPE for use on Liverpool-Newcastle services? Or if not, the York-Leeds-Bradford-Halifax-Preston-Blackpool services rather than just shuttling between Manchester and Blackpool?

You do know that there is only about 2 trains per day from Liverpool - Newcastle! That will probably not have many people on as they are at times when most are sleeping They are Newcastle - Manchester Airport and scarborough - liverpool!

 

[Pumbaa]

is it just me, or would be it be much more sensible to send the 180s to TPE for use on Liverpool-Newcastle services? Or if not, the York-Leeds-Bradford-Halifax-Preston-Blackpool services rather than just shuttling between Manchester and Blackpool?

Probably. The only reason the 180s aren't doing it is route clearance. They are currently only cleared for diagrams they currently worked. This is because 175s worked these diagrams, which are the 180s infantile siblings.

I don't know however, if it's a case of a) nobody bothered to check if the 180s could be cleared for other workings, and anyway, it costs money, or b) 180s just aren't able to cleared to run on other routes.