Class 185 air con issues

Sammyh1234

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As the heatwave continues I can’t help but notice a significant increase in the number of complaints about air con issues on tpe trains. I experienced this first hand this afternoon on 185150 which had the middle coach locked out of use due to the air conditioning failing. Is this a common issue with the 185s during hot weather?
 
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ainsworth74

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In previous years I've always considered 185s to have excellent cooling in hot weather. It's like walking into a glorious ice box when joining the train or onto the surface of mercury when leaving the train.
 

Sammyh1234

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In previous years I've always considered 185s to have excellent cooling in hot weather. It's like walking into a glorious ice box when joining the train or onto the surface of mercury when leaving the train.
I have to agree, the coach I sat in was perfectly cool. Much better than a majority of trains in the north.
 

dgl

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And given from what I've heard else where the compared the the new 197's the 185's air-con is far superior, mainly because it's (as I understand) not been disabled/drained fleet wide due to corrosion in the system and the subsequent risk of fire if the refrigerant leaks!
 

XAM2175

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I was on a number of 185s over the weekend just gone and I did notice the air-conditioning seemed to be a bit weak, actually. It was especially apparent on Sunday as I'd been on beautifully-chilly 802s, 170s, and 397s as well.
 

Bletchleyite

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And given from what I've heard else where the compared the the new 197's the 185's air-con is far superior, mainly because it's (as I understand) not been disabled/drained fleet wide due to corrosion in the system and the subsequent risk of fire if the refrigerant leaks!

Is there a known issue with 195 aircon? I was on one last weekend and it was a bit warm, which didn't exactly exude COVID-safety, though I suppose if the air was still being recirculated that's that dealt with.
 

skyhigh

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Is there a known issue with 195 aircon? I was on one last weekend and it was a bit warm, which didn't exactly exude COVID-safety, though I suppose if the air was still being recirculated that's that dealt with.
There's no problem with the air conditioning on 195s (other than it perhaps being a little bit weedy). The underfloor heating is isolated on the fleet for some reason, but that doesn't affect cooling- and there is another primary heating system for when it gets cooler.
 

Sammyh1234

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Currently sat on 185128 and it is unbearably hot, considering getting off at dewsbury and waiting for the next train. No air con at all.
 

greyman42

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As the heatwave continues I can’t help but notice a significant increase in the number of complaints about air con issues on tpe trains. I experienced this first hand this afternoon on 185150 which had the middle coach locked out of use due to the air conditioning failing. Is this a common issue with the 185s during hot weather?
Why lock the middle coach out of use? If passengers find it too hot they can move to another. I have always been happy to sit in coaches without air con.
 

Sammyh1234

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Why lock the middle coach out of use? If passengers find it too hot they can move to another. I have always been happy to sit in coaches without air con.
I’m assuming it was because the 185s don’t have any openable windows and it was 26 degrees out. The train wasn’t exactly busy anyway so no real issues were caused.
 

MattRat

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All this desire to have air con in trains, and people never thought about what would happen if they broke. I know it's old news, but it still makes me chuckle. I've always been fine with just opening a window.
 

greyman42

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All this desire to have air con in trains, and people never thought about what would happen if they broke. I know it's old news, but it still makes me chuckle. I've always been fine with just opening a window.
The trouble with that is the people who are too hot open the hoppers above their seats and it is the people sat further down, who might be fine with the temperature, who get blasted with cold air throughout their journey.
 

MattRat

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The trouble with that is the people who are too hot open the hoppers above their seats and it is the people sat further down, who might be fine with the temperature, who get blasted with cold air throughout their journey.
Well clearly that's poor window design.
 

Bletchleyite

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It's fundamental fluid mechanics. I'm curious as to what constitutes good window design in your mind

Sliding windows with air dams redirect the air towards the passengers sitting near them. Hoppers don't.

In reality personal vents are probably the best way as they can be pointed at the individual. But very few trains have them - only some Networker EMUs.
 

ic31420

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Was at ManPicc yesterday and noted that the coupe of 185s had the air con system running full bore on the platforms making quite a racket. Not sure I've noticed that before.

There's no problem with the air conditioning on 195s (other than it perhaps being a little bit weedy). The underfloor heating is isolated on the fleet for some reason, but that doesn't affect cooling- and there is another primary heating system for when it gets cooler.

Wait.... Underfloor heating? Do other trains have that?
 
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Has anyone noticed the leading coach is always a different temperature to the two trailing?

My theory is that the leading coach is synced with the drivers cab.

Can be a benefit or a nightmare
 

tpjm

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Has anyone noticed the leading coach is always a different temperature to the two trailing?

My theory is that the leading coach is synced with the drivers cab.

Can be a benefit or a nightmare
Cab and saloon HVAC are completely independent.
 

Bayum

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Why lock the middle coach out of use? If passengers find it too hot they can move to another. I have always been happy to sit in coaches without air con.
Depends how warm it was… It’s pretty much a greenhouse on wheels with no circulating air. Add passengers to the mix and you can very quickly get a situation with unwell passengers. Towards the end of last year, I went to the staffroom to cook dinner and make a protein shake for the gym and it was unbearable after two minutes because of the heat. Palpitations, sweat literally dripping from anywhere and everywhere, pounding headache.
 

CAF397

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Was at ManPicc yesterday and noted that the coupe of 185s had the air con system running full bore on the platforms making quite a racket. Not sure I've noticed that before.
If it was below the carriage it was most probably the radiators. On a hot day they work extra hard keeping the cooling system for the engines cool. The HVAC is on the roof and isn't normally loud.
 

greyman42

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Depends how warm it was… It’s pretty much a greenhouse on wheels with no circulating air. Add passengers to the mix and you can very quickly get a situation with unwell passengers.
Then they can move to another coach if it is to hot for them.
 

Sammyh1234

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Then they can move to another coach if it is to hot for them.
That’s not always possible when you use the railway to commute to and from work. My train to work is fairly early however it’s often full with standing passengers.
 

Bevan Price

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Sliding windows with air dams redirect the air towards the passengers sitting near them. Hoppers don't.

In reality personal vents are probably the best way as they can be pointed at the individual. But very few trains have them - only some Networker EMUs.
The problem with hopper windows is that they have only two settings - fully closed or fully open. Sliding windows can be adjusted to give variable degrees of ventilation, dependent on needs on the day. Many buses have the same problem as trains.
 

apinnard

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The 755/4 I was on yesterday from Peterborough was very toasty, but not unbearably. A heavily pregnant lady actually asked the guard if he could open the sliding emergency window whilst the train was in motion!
 

driverd

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As someone who has years of experience using 185s, I can safely say failing air con is not a new issue at all. They're probably second behind the 158s if I'm honest. It's never aided by traincrew insisting on leaving saloon end doors open to try and circulate air across carriages, which simply makes the aircon on the neighbouring vehicle work even harder to minimal effect on the next carriage.

I'd also add they're about as unpleasant as a train can get when the aircon does fail. Above you is the beating sun, below you an extremely warm engine, in the middle are some very sweaty passengers.

Conversely, I've yet to see an aircon unit fail on a 195.

I think, ultimately, you're asking a lot for a diesel engine to drive an aircon unit of the size required. EMUs seem to have issues far less often, I suspect due to the readily available, consistent supply of electricity.
 

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