Class 195 Technical Questions

[ryan125hst]

Having had my first ride on a Class 195 yesterday, I have a couple of technical questions that I am hoping someone can provide the answer to.

Firstly, they have a 6 Speed ZF EcoLife transmission. What speed do they typical change up to each gear at? I am aware it varies depending upon the throttle setting, gradient etc, but I'm just after a rough idea of when they change up to each gear. Pacers and 75 mph Sprinters have a hydraulic transmission and change up at approximately 45 mph and Class 158's change up at 55 mph (according to a couple of other threads). I am interested in seeing how the gearing on the 195's compares.

Secondly, what is that sound of a motor starting up that you can hear inside them? I had heard it on videos of them (and also on the 331's) and thought it was the air compressor. Hearing it onboard yesterday, it sounded like the air conditioning fans started up as there was a definite increase in fan noise from the roof immediately afterwards. However, it didn't seem to last long and it was only about 10 degrees so the air con wasn't really needed. Does anyone know what this noise is?

 

[Llama]

There are too many variables for the transmission to have 'known' speeds where it changes up/down - throttle setting (variable from 0-100%) and 'powerpack' mode (Eco, Normal, Power, Super Power) both have an effect.

The odd noise in the ceiling is the air conditioning. The main air system compressors are very quiet when running and there isn't one on the DMSL vehicle.

 

[hwl]

Having had my first ride on a Class 195 yesterday, I have a couple of technical questions that I am hoping someone can provide the answer to.

Firstly, they have a 6 Speed ZF EcoLife transmission. What speed do they typical change up to each gear at? I am aware it varies depending upon the throttle setting, gradient etc, but I'm just after a rough idea of when they change up to each gear. Pacers and 75 mph Sprinters have a hydraulic transmission and change up at approximately 45 mph and Class 158's change up at 55 mph (according to a couple of other threads). I am interested in seeing how the gearing on the 195's compares.

Secondly, what is that sound of a motor starting up that you can hear inside them? I had heard it on videos of them (and also on the 331's) and thought it was the air compressor. Hearing it onboard yesterday, it sounded like the air conditioning fans started up as there was a definite increase in fan noise from the roof immediately afterwards. However, it didn't seem to last long and it was only about 10 degrees so the air con wasn't really needed. Does anyone know what this noise is?

Those change speeds for hydraulic transmissions only apply in Notches 6/7, the transition speeds are lower in lower notches.
On mechanical boxes you still have a torque converter to manage the very low speeds (up to 10-12mph in the 195 case?) with mech box above this. The change up speed from one gear to the next is always higher than the change down speed to prevent unnecessary gear changing (4mph gap between up/down?). Hence at least 28 change speeds for 195s as I understand them... (See @Llama 's brief introduction!)

 

[Llama]

That's right, on a 142/144/150/153/155/156 the transmission will change from torque converter to fluid coupling at ~30mph in the lower power notches, up to ~45mph in notch 7.

I have noticed that on a 195 in Super Power mode with about 30% power applied at just under 30mph on the moderate rising gradient through Stanningley tunnel after New Pudsey the gearbox has a tendency to hunt, there's probably only 2-3mph 'gap' at that speed for that setting.

The different power modes on the 195s don't change the engine output, they change the speed the transmission changes gear - more economical settings cause it to change up early whereas Super Power mode wrings every last drop out of each year, at least in 100% power. The difference in acceleration is certainly noticeable between the highest and lowest settings.

 

[hwl]

That's right, on a 142/144/150/153/155/156 the transmission will change from torque converter to fluid coupling at ~30mph in the lower power notches, up to ~45mph in notch 7.

I have noticed that on a 195 in Super Power mode with about 30% power applied at just under 30mph on the moderate rising gradient through Stanningley tunnel after New Pudsey the gearbox has a tendency to hunt, there's probably only 2-3mph 'gap' at that speed for that setting.

The different power modes on the 195s don't change the engine output, they change the speed the transmission changes gear - more economical settings cause it to change up early whereas Super Power mode wrings every last drop out of each year, at least in 100% power. The difference in acceleration is certainly noticeable between the highest and lowest settings.

172 are about 3 mph gap so that would make sense as this is an updated version of that gear box.

 

[Railperf]

That's right, on a 142/144/150/153/155/156 the transmission will change from torque converter to fluid coupling at ~30mph in the lower power notches, up to ~45mph in notch 7.

I have noticed that on a 195 in Super Power mode with about 30% power applied at just under 30mph on the moderate rising gradient through Stanningley tunnel after New Pudsey the gearbox has a tendency to hunt, there's probably only 2-3mph 'gap' at that speed for that setting.

The different power modes on the 195s don't change the engine output, they change the speed the transmission changes gear - more economical settings cause it to change up early whereas Super Power mode wrings every last drop out of each year, at least in 100% power. The difference in acceleration is certainly noticeable between the highest and lowest settings.

What modes are drivers supposed to be using for normal driving when running to time? And under what circumstances are they allowed to use Super Power mode?

 

[Llama]

There's no info been put out about that yet, at least at my depot and as far as I know at other depots. The training isn't specific as far as instructions go. To be honest, if most trains ran to time that might be something that's looked at, or perhaps trials done, but given Northern's performance most 195s would need SPW mode at some point in their journey. The different modes can be selected at any time but any changes to the settings are only actually made once the train is brought to a stand.

On the 331s the regenerative brake is still isolated at the moment which is probably having a bigger effect on overall traction fuel/energy consumption than the different settings on the 195s.

 

[hwl]

There's no info been put out about that yet, at least at my depot and as far as I know at other depots. The training isn't specific as far as instructions go. To be honest, if most trains ran to time that might be something that's looked at, or perhaps trials done, but given Northern's performance most 195s would need SPW mode at some point in their journey. The different modes can be selected at any time but any changes to the settings are only actually made once the train is brought to a stand.

On the 331s the regenerative brake is still isolated at the moment which is probably having a bigger effect on overall traction fuel/energy consumption than the different settings on the 195s.

My understanding is that although there are 4 power mode settings they are effectively just 2 in reality.

 

[Llama]

Only time I've ever relieved a 195 which has been in anything other than ECO or SPW mode it was a Leeds man.

Also, whenever the driver's desk is shut down the unit reverts to ECO mode.

 

[ryan125hst]

The odd noise in the ceiling is the air conditioning. The main air system compressors are very quiet when running and there isn't one on the DMSL vehicle.

Why would this start up, stop within a minute or so and then restart a few minutes later? It's even more odd that it would have likely been providing heating given the ambient temperature.

Regarding the gear changes, if we say the train is in normal mode on level track and was at full power (not sure how many notches they have), could you give rough speeds of each gear change? I'm curious of how they are geared. Do they reach sixth on 60 mph track for instance?

 

[hexagon789]

Why would this start up, stop within a minute or so and then restart a few minutes later? It's even more odd that it would have likely been providing heating given the ambient temperature.

Regarding the gear changes, if we say the train is in normal mode on level track and was at full power (not sure how many notches they have), could you give rough speeds of each gear change? I'm curious of how they are geared. Do they reach sixth on 60 mph track for instance?

Assuming that sixth gear isn't disabled as with 172s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would this start up, stop within a minute or so and then restart a few minutes later? It's even more odd that it would have likely been providing heating given the ambient temperature.

Because of the thermostat. A domestic fridge does the same thing in the same way for the same reason. Indeed, an aircon unit is basically the same thing as a fridge but with an added fan.

In UK trains you cool from the ceiling and warm from the floor level conduit with the air mixing in between.

 

[Llama]

Regarding the gear changes, if we say the train is in normal mode on level track and was at full power (not sure how many notches they have), could you give rough speeds of each gear change? I'm curious of how they are geared. Do they reach sixth on 60 mph track for instance?

To be honest I've no idea, as the gear changes can't be heard in the cab at any real speed and also I've only ever driven one in 'normal mode' (yes there is such a setting) once. Most of the time the units are in Eco or Super Power mode (the heirarchy of modes is eco which is default, normal, power, super power).

The gearbox can be heard working pretty clearly in the saloons though. You'd be better off being on a 195 that's pretty much guaranteed to get to 100mph to hear the range of the gearbox, so from Preston either way on a Windermere/Barrow-Manchester Airport train, but only if the driver is staying on after Preston - if a relief driver gets on at Preston they will do a running brake test at 40-50mph which involves inhibiting the hydrodynamic brake so you won't necessarily get a clean run from 0-100mph through the transmission. From Wigan northwards on a Barrow/Windermere is also a good bet and probably less likely to have a relief driver but there are still one or two jobs where we have relief at Wigan.

As for power notches, the power is continuously variable from 0-100% in normal working.

 

[ryan125hst]

It's interesting that they are that quiet in the cab. Presumably the cabs are far quieter overall than Pacers and Sprinters?

It's unlikely that I'll get to go on one at 100 mph given where I live, but I'll keep a look out on YouTube as videos sometimes appear with GPS speeds shown on a phone screen.

How many trains have continuously variable power? I've heard of it with brakes but I always believed power is usually controlled in notches. Is this a CAF thing or something that is on other trains and I've just not realised?

 

[hexagon789]

How many trains have continuously variable power? I've heard of it with brakes but I always believed power is usually controlled in notches. Is this a CAF thing or something that is on other trains and I've just not realised?

I think it's more unusual with DMUs, but I can think of a number locos and some EMUs with continuously variable power settings.

 

[Llama]

It's interesting that they are that quiet in the cab. Presumably the cabs are far quieter overall than Pacers and Sprinters?

The cab ambience is generally quiet, yes. Quiet enough to have a conversation at 100 without having to raise your voice. However there are issues with one of the systems in the cab in particular that is far too loud (to be honest most of the different alarms are too loud but this one in particular is bad) and we hope is subject to imminent modification.