Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[EngFocus]

There were/are issues with gauge clearance on the Conwy Valley line which were going to be addressed, but as time went on, the introduction of 230s slipt and other DMUs began arriving so the case for gauge clearing the line became less critical.

Somehow TfW got it into their heads that 230s could maintain the Chester-Crewe timetable, but eventually realised that even with quicker acceleration than 15X, the top speed of 60mph meant that there was no way that they could keep to time.

So we could end up with a situation in which all 5 230s are available for use on the Wrexham-Bidston line before December 2021, but with nowhere else to go. Hopefully TfW will want to put them to work and perhaps bring the half hourly service forward. Which of course depends on drivers being available.

Then there's the issue of Network Rail wanting to install an extra block section before allowing a full half hourly service. The proposal so far is for extra service per hour to be a skip stop service, which is completely unacceptable. A full half hourly service could be maintained all be it for 1 or 2 periods during the day when freight movements are scheduled.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

I would imagine the other issue for Chester-Crewe is training. There are so many depots that work that run. Holyhead, Llandudno Junction, Chester, Crewe, Shrewsbury and Cardiff crew all sign it. That's 100's of staff. When you consider Driver training will likely be 4 or 5 days and Conductor training 1 or 2, it'll take an age to get the training done.

 

[Chester1]

There were/are issues with gauge clearance on the Conwy Valley line which were going to be addressed, but as time went on, the introduction of 230s slipt and other DMUs began arriving so the case for gauge clearing the line became less critical.

Somehow TfW got it into their heads that 230s could maintain the Chester-Crewe timetable, but eventually realised that even with quicker acceleration than 15X, the top speed of 60mph meant that there was no way that they could keep to time.

So we could end up with a situation in which all 5 230s are available for use on the Wrexham-Bidston line before December 2021, but with nowhere else to go. Hopefully TfW will want to put them to work and perhaps bring the half hourly service forward. Which of course depends on drivers being available.

Then there's the issue of Network Rail wanting to install an extra block section before allowing a full half hourly service. The proposal so far is for extra service per hour to be a skip stop service, which is completely unacceptable. A full half hourly service could be maintained all be it for 1 or 2 periods during the day when freight movements are scheduled.

Considering the delays into service so far and the reliability of the Marston units, simply having enough units to always have 2 in service by December 2021 seems sufficiently ambitious! They will be a step change in punctuality and comfort and just getting them to run the existing service will be an important improvement.

 

[jimm]

230002 is putting in a good few miles on the Cotswold Line at the moment - was out Tues-Thurs last week and out again today. Some pictures by Peter Tandy of the set at Honeybourne on his website, plus bodyshells painted in fresh primer at Long Marston

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/Recentpics.html

 

[Gareth]

[QUOTE="EngFocus, post: 4467959, member: 25415]The proposal so far is for extra service per hour to be a skip stop service, which is completely unacceptable.[/QUOTE]

Seems a rather strong objection, considering the line is currently hourly and has been for donkeys' years. No one is worse off than currently under the plan, even if not everyone gains. The skip-stop is needed to allow four units to be used. Ideally, it'd be 2tph all stops but the extra unit required probably doesn't make the frequency increase economical.

 

[EngFocus]

[QUOTE="EngFocus, post: 4467959, member: 25415]The proposal so far is for extra service per hour to be a skip stop service, which is completely unacceptable.

Seems a rather strong objection, considering the line is currently hourly and has been for donkeys' years. No one is worse off than currently under the plan, even if not everyone gains. The skip-stop is needed to allow four units to be used. Ideally, it'd be 2tph all stops but the extra unit required probably doesn't make the frequency increase economical.[/QUOTE]

The question then is, which communities will have to miss out from the new more frequent service which has the potential to profoundly benefit commuters. This question I an others find unacceptable.

2 class 150 units currently maintain the hourly service so 4 class 230s could maintain a full half hourly service. The 5th is not required to maintain the service, but used spare with the 5th undergoing maintenance whilst the remaining 4 are in service. this was always the intention. What's more the class 230s should outperform the class 150s due to improved acceleration.

Research has been done by interested parties which shows 230s will outperform class 150s, the valuable minutes saved will help to improve reliability and will mean that a full all station stopping half hourly service can be maintained. The reason for the skip stop service is nothing to do with vehicle availability but the before mentioned freight movement of which there are around 4 scheduled per day, but often are not used.

 

[Skip 10]

Seems a rather strong objection, considering the line is currently hourly and has been for donkeys' years. No one is worse off than currently under the plan, even if not everyone gains. The skip-stop is needed to allow four units to be used. Ideally, it'd be 2tph all stops but the extra unit required probably doesn't make the frequency increase economical.

The question then is, which communities will have to miss out from the new more frequent service which has the potential to profoundly benefit commuters. This question I an others find unacceptable.

2 class 150 units currently maintain the hourly service so 4 class 230s could maintain a full half hourly service. The 5th is not required to maintain the service, but used spare with the 5th undergoing maintenance whilst the remaining 4 are in service. this was always the intention. What's more the class 230s should outperform the class 150s due to improved acceleration.

Research has been done by interested parties which shows 230s will outperform class 150s, the valuable minutes saved will help to improve reliability and will mean that a full all station stopping half hourly service can be maintained. The reason for the skip stop service is nothing to do with vehicle availability but the before mentioned freight movement of which there are around 4 scheduled per day, but often are not used.[/QUOTE]
Not one unit finished, or tried and tested on the line but a lot is known about their performance? Any valuable minutes saved will make the current timetable workable. Most trains are booked to arrive 2 minutes after they've departed currently and the long sections wouldn't allow for any recovery in the timetable even if an all stations 2tph service could be run.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The question then is, which communities will have to miss out from the new more frequent service which has the potential to profoundly benefit commuters. This question I an others find unacceptable.

Well how about starting with Hawarden Bridge and Cefn y Bedd which between them have a mere 10,000 ons and offs a year, which represents around 15 return trips per day. Several more stations “enjoy” around 20,000 per year, so still small beer.

The improvement in reliability and/or reduction in journey times will both increase the attractiveness of the service for the larger communities the line predominantly serves, and will be a greater benefit, most notably Wrexham of course. And it’s not to the detriment of any of the stations being skipped as they still get the same hourly service.

 

[Roger B]

Well how about starting with Hawarden Bridge and Cefn y Bedd which between them have a mere 10,000 ons and offs a year, which represents around 15 return trips per day. Several more stations “enjoy” around 20,000 per year, so still small beer.

The improvement in reliability and/or reduction in journey times will both increase the attractiveness of the service for the larger communities the line predominantly serves, and will be a greater benefit, most notably Wrexham of course. And it’s not to the detriment of any of the stations being skipped as they still get the same hourly service.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

Overall, it's a much greater benefit to introduce a robust half-hourly service to the vast majority of users (and potential users) of the line (while retaining an hourly service for all other users), than to introduce a half-hourly service to all that has the effect of making everyone's services prone to late-running.

Added to which, there may be some potential to add in the missing stops subsequently once the performance characteristics of the 230s over the line and station dwell times are better understood. It may even be possible to increase maximum speed for the 230s over certain speed restrictions on the line, given their reduced weight and resultant lower track force (being mindful that they can't exceed 60mph anyway).

 

[kieron]

Well how about starting with Hawarden Bridge and Cefn y Bedd which between them have a mere 10,000 ons and offs a year, which represents around 15 return trips per day. Several more stations “enjoy” around 20,000 per year, so still small beer.

Cefn-y-Bedd and Caergwrle are less than a mile apart. If one had a much higher service frequency, I would expect the passenger figures at the other one to fall heavily. Caergwrle and Hope are in the same situation.

This is certainly an issue many people who use the line are familiar with, with a more frequent service at Flint than Shotton, and a more frequent service from Merseyrail stations than Upton. Heswall or Neston. If the infrastructure doesn't allow 2 trains an hour to stop everywhere except Hawarden Bridge, I'd expect there to be a lot of pressure on TfW to get as close as they can to it.

 

[Gareth]

Merseytravel suggested the second service skipping Upton, Penyfford, Hope and Cefn-y-Bedd.

This was proposed on the assumption that Hawarden Bridge would be upgraded. Assuming that isn't happening now, perhaps an additional call can be made at one of those other stations.

 

[EngFocus]

I think the vast majority of the 10,000 trips would be attributed to Cefn y Bedd as only 6 trains a day call at Hawarden Bridge. Currently it doesn't really serve much of a purpose, but the large Airfields development could make the station important again.

However plans are moving forward for Deeside Parkway, which has the potential to serve many more passengers. If it was a choice between stopping at Hawarden Bridge or Deeside Parkway (I know that's still 5 years away), I think the choice would be Deeside Parkway even despite the Airfields development.

As for class 230 performance being an unknown, whilst this is true to some extent, a good indication of its performance can be gleaned from power to weight calculations and improved traction due to having double the number of powered axles. The class 230 even in 3 car formation with added weight of batteries has the potential to outperform a class 150 by no small margin.

There are also easy win speed increases that would further help to improve resilience. However despite an announcement in the budget last year, stating that funding will be available for speed increases on the Borderlands line Network Rail is dragging its heels. Restrictions on the Dee bridge for instance were put in place when it was a swing bridge, but now it is locked with CWR in place. Small adjustments in areas with currently very low speed limits would all help to further reduce journey times by vulnerable minutes. One of the main sticking points is the Wirral up section which is still jointed. NR won't increase speeds on the Wirral section until both up and down are CWR, with the up not due to be replaced until late next year, maybe 2022.

 

[D365]

As for class 230 performance being an unknown, whilst this is true to some extent, a good indication of its performance can be gleaned from power to weight calculations and improved traction due to having double the number of powered axles. The class 230 even in 3 car formation with added weight of batteries has the potential to outperform a class 150 by no small margin.

Oh it will, without a doubt. Low speed acceleration and deceleration will happen in electric mode.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for class 230 performance being an unknown, whilst this is true to some extent, a good indication of its performance can be gleaned from power to weight calculations and improved traction due to having double the number of powered axles. The class 230 even in 3 car formation with added weight of batteries has the potential to outperform a class 150 by no small margin.

Even the diesel version on the Marston Vale, when it's not broken, is really quick off the mark - basically the same as they were as Tube trains. Unfortunately, however, all that acceleration is thrown away by the glacially slow door operation. They can only keep to Class 150 timings reliably if the guard operates the doors from the cab, and even then barely, there's a lot of "sloppy" late running goes on (5 minutes here, 10 there). The time available for passengers to board and alight at each stop is easily something like 20-30 seconds less than the actual stop time, which is just appalling and needs looking at seriously.

 

[Neen Sollars]

With thanks to Peter Tandy. Take a look at the top right hand side of the photo, its a red 230. Peter will post photos as soon as the Tfw 230s appear on test. The red looks very red and the grey very grey.

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/47813_5D94_Split_LM_100320

 

[D365]

The Long Marston sidings sure have changed in colour since I last visited..!

Looks like the same public vantage point as usual, with the Vivarail workshop in the top-right corner of the frame.

 

[sw1ller]

Regards the semi-fast proposal. Would it not be the best if both worlds if you made all the skipped stations request calls? Most of them were in the past. Potentially a much faster service but all communities are still served.

 

[Neen Sollars]

Again thanks to Peter Tandy for this photo. Not sure I agree with his observations. I thought the Vivarail paintshop was beyond the workshops which are further north from this shed, I think it is visible as a single line canvas framed building on Google Earth. If any of these are TfW vehicles, and I can see two have some red paint showing, then the contract delivery is going to be seriously late. I would guess at least two of these are the Island Line units and they may be lined up ready for transport to the new facility at Southam for completion. I know there are a few D78 experts out there so are these driving cars or centre cars, looks at least one end car.


http://www.petertandy.co.uk/230s_LM_230320

 

[DelW]

That looks to me like four Island Line cars in SWR livery, two nearest to the shed doors and two next to the hopper wagon. The dark-painted ends are the cab ends, the light painted ends, as at far right, are inner ends. IIRC Island Line units will be two cars, so theirs will all be driving cars.

 

[St. Paddy]

230006 is out on trials on the Cotswold line now

 

[D365]

230006 is out on trials on the Cotswold line now

Thanks for the update, looking forward to hearing more progress.

 

[Bob Price]

Would be good if there was a webcam along the way

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder to stick to the Class 230 units for the Borderlands line on this thread; if anyone wishes to discuss Class 230 units on other lines (e.g. Island Line) please use a separate thread (if there is one already) or create a separate thread (if there isn't), thanks

 

[sw1ller]

Just a gentle reminder to stick to the Class 230 units for the Borderlands line on this thread; if anyone wishes to discuss Class 230 units on other lines (e.g. Island Line) please use a separate thread (if there is one already) or create a separate thread (if there isn't), thanks

230006 IS for the borderlands line though??

 

[Doveymain158]

230006 IS for the borderlands line though??

Yes it is. I have seen an image of it in TfW livery but unable to share.

 

[St. Paddy]

230006 IS for the borderlands line though??

Yes it is for Borderlands, in full TFw livery. There are pictures on British Rail Old School Facebook page of the unit at Evesham.

 

[Neen Sollars]

Typical! A Transport for Wales 230 gets a run out and everyone is on lockdown! Any links from any source to pics would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

230006 IS for the borderlands line though??

Postings # 108 and # 109 that were posted before that posting were making reference to the Island Line in their text.

 

[Domh245]

Postings # 108 and # 109 that were posted before that posting were making reference to the Island Line in their text.

Only in the context of Island Line vehicles being visible in the photographs of the site. It'd be quite the surprise though if it was an Island line unit out and testing as that order came in far later than the one for TfW. It is also cited on wikipedia that the TfW units are the range 230006-230010 so I think that settles it fairly conclusively

 

[D365]

Only in the context of Island Line vehicles being visible in the photographs of the site. It'd be quite the surprise though if it was an Island line unit out and testing as that order came in far later than the one for TfW.

Indeed, the cited photo appears to show a number of Class 484 carriages having been through the paintshop. There won't be more to discuss until the first completed carriage is unveiled, or until units appear down south for testing. When that happens, I'm sure the dedicated thread will become active again.

With regards to testing of the Borderlands units, I imagine that photos will be rather thin on the ground. The private Facebook group mentioned upthread has some rather specific questions that they ask in order to be granted entry.