Class 24, 25, 26, 27 ("Sulzer Type 2s")

[D6130]

One of the more curious 26 workings was toward the end of their lives. There was a daily early evening northbound parcels through Lancaster, can't remember if it started at Crewe or Preston.
Always seemed to be an oddball rostering

Must have been worked by Carlisle men.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

One of the more curious 26 workings was toward the end of their lives. There was a daily early evening northbound parcels through Lancaster, can't remember if it started at Crewe or Preston.
Always seemed to be an oddball rostering

Carlisle drivers would have signed 26s (they worked on the GSW, and pre electrification also the Caledonian TPO via Beattock), and probably signed Crewe and most certainly Preston.

The 26s were competent with up to 9 coaches on the Far North line. Not bad for locos with only 1160hp! Their lower gearing would have helped of course and no need for speed on that line!

Just as 27s managed 9 on the West Highland although with even less need for speed - 60 mph max Cowlairs to Craigendoran there after 40max (until the late 70s when some sections were raised to 50) although 'always' 45/50 Crianlarich to Oban. I think even back then the Far North had sections at around 60.

On both routes they could have hauled more but the passenger trains would be timed for max. 9 whereas freight train loads were heavier and timings slower.

 

[Gloster]

One of the more curious 26 workings was toward the end of their lives. There was a daily early evening northbound parcels through Lancaster, can't remember if it started at Crewe or Preston.
Always seemed to be an oddball rostering

I think they also used to work the freight to Warcop on occasions.

 

[D6130]

I think they also used to work the freight to Warcop on occasions.

They did indeed....and I've seen a photo in one of the many Settle & Carlisle books of a 26 passing Armathwaite hauling an inspection saloon.

 

[Richard Scott]

I think they also used to work the freight to Warcop on occasions.

Dud have one on that branch on a railtour many years ago, think it was 26041.

 

[Cowley]

Oh! I was expecting a full size one permanently attached to the front. No wonder I couldn't find a photo of it!

Thanks

A lot of early diesel classes had small nose end gangways like that.
At least some members (but not always all) of classes - 21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,30,31,37,40,41,44 and 45 had them, although they were rarely used in service and were often welded up or plated over in later years to alleviate drafts in the cab.

 

[D6130]

A lot of early diesel classes had small nose end gangways like that.
At least some members (but not always all) of classes - 21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,30,31,37,40,41,44 and 45 had them, although they were rarely used in service and were often welded up or plated over in later years to alleviate drafts in the cab.

As far as I'm aware they were provided to permit the secondman to walk through and attend to the steam heating boiler on the second loco on double-headed trains with the locos working in multiple.

 

[Cowley]

As far as I'm aware they were provided to permit the secondman to walk through and attend to the steam heating boiler on the second loco on double-headed trains with the locos working in multiple.

Yes I believe so. Must have felt quite scary walking through them between a pair of class 25s bouncing along at speed?

 

[marsker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always felt that Classes 25 (1250bhp) and 26 (1160bhp) were allocated in the wrong order.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always felt that Classes 25 (1250bhp) and 26 (1160bhp) were allocated in the wrong order.

Perhaps the logic was 24s and 25s were 'brothers' as were 26s and 27s?

 

[Snow1964]

The corridor connection was used now and again

Is that a single line tablet catcher on the right hand loco
How many had those ?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Is that a single line tablet catcher on the right hand loco
How many had those ?

Most / all of those working out of Inverness. Some 27s had the cutout for it but I'm not sure if they ever actually carried catchers -I'm pretty sure by the time 27s reached Inverness on a regular basis the catchers were no longer in use.

I also remember the tablet catchers on the Inverness Aberdeen class 120 DMUs, an unusual situation where the tablet was in the custody of the Guard rather than the Driver. there was a special buzzer code for 'correct tablet received' or something similar.

EDIT: Would today's safety culture approve of the practice where the Driver - or Guard on the DMU - had to reach out of the window of a moving train to retrieve the received tablet or to place the one being returned on the catcher, I think not! There must have been numerous occasions when they were dropped, there certainly were from time to time with manual exchange.
Some Scottish class 20s were also fitted with tablet catchers.

 

[delt1c]

Most / all of those working out of Inverness. Some 27s had the cutout for it but I'm not sure if they ever actually carried catchers -I'm pretty sure by the time 27s reached Inverness on a regular basis the catchers were no longer in use.

I also remember the tablet catchers on the Inverness Aberdeen class 120 DMUs, an unusual situation where the tablet was in the custody of the Guard rather than the Driver. there was a special buzzer code for 'correct tablet received' or something similar.

EDIT: Would today's safety culture approve of the practice where the Driver - or Guard on the DMU - had to reach out of the window of a moving train to retrieve the received tablet or to place the one being returned on the catcher, I think not! There must have been numerous occasions when they were dropped, there certainly were from time to time with manual exchange.
Some Scottish class 20s were also fitted with tablet catchers

Most / all of those working out of Inverness. Some 27s had the cutout for it but I'm not sure if they ever actually carried catchers -I'm pretty sure by the time 27s reached Inverness on a regular basis the catchers were no longer in use.

I also remember the tablet catchers on the Inverness Aberdeen class 120 DMUs, an unusual situation where the tablet was in the custody of the Guard rather than the Driver. there was a special buzzer code for 'correct tablet received' or something similar.

EDIT: Would today's safety culture approve of the practice where the Driver - or Guard on the DMU - had to reach out of the window of a moving train to retrieve the received tablet or to place the one being returned on the catcher, I think not! There must have been numerous occasions when they were dropped, there certainly were from time to time with manual exchange.
Some Scottish class 20s were also fitted with tablet catchers.

The 26/s and 27/s built for the Scr could easily be identified even after the tablet changers had been removed and the recess plated over as they had sliding cab windows. Also the 20’s which were built with tablet catchers had smaller cab windows

 

[Bevan Price]

Must have been worked by Carlisle men.

Southbound, it terminated at Preston in mid-evening. Got a photo of a 26 at Preston - somewhere..

 

[CW2]

I know of one instance in the early 1980s when a pair of 26s worked Edinburgh - Carlisle - S&C - Farington Jn on a Sunday morning return Ruggex to South Wales. That must have been pretty rare.
Back in 1985 I had 27103 on load 12 from Carlisle to Glasgow Central via Beattock one Sunday morning. That was not a fast journey - it took until north of Lockerbie to achieve 60 mph! It kept going though.

 

[Strathclyder]

One short-lived freight working 26s found themselves on in the late 80s was a imported coal flow from Rothesay Dock in Yoker (nr. Clydebank) to a Fife power station (Kincardine at first, then Cockenzie and/or Longannet. The sources I've read up on are conflicted on the exact order & number of power stations served, anyone who knows for sure please let me know). Linked below is a pic of 26001 & 26006 passing through a dreich Scotstounhill with a fully loaded MGR train c.1988 (from the scot-rail.co.uk site, uploaded by Deepol). Diesel power on the Yoker line has always looked slightly odd to me.

scot-rail.co.uk » Photo » 26001/ 26006

Fast-forward to June 1991 & 26006 has gained Railfreight two-tone grey with Coal sector markings in it's twilight years in service. Also from scot-rail.co.uk (uploaded by KeithSanders), here is 006 at Inveresk (just south of Musselburgh) on the ECML piloting 56089 with a MGR train headed south. According to the photo caption, it would come off the train at Grantshouse. This McRat/Grid combo can't have been common in the grand scheme, never mind when both locos were in matching liveries lol

scot-rail.co.uk » Photo » 26006 + 56089

 

[Cowley]

Great photo @Strathclyder.

 

[Strathclyder]

Great photo @Strathclyder.

Thank you, but of course, all credit really must go to the original photographers. I had been aware of the Scotstounhill image for some time (while diesel traction isn't completely unknown on that particular stretch of the Glasgow suburban network, it'll never not be odd to me lol), but I wasn't even aware of the image of the Railfreight Coal 26/56 combo until I found it within the last 12 or so hours.

 

[Richard Scott]

Thank you, but of course, all credit really must go to the original photographers. I had been aware of the Scotstounhill image for some time (while diesel traction isn't completely unknown on that particular stretch of the Glasgow suburban network, it'll never not be odd to me lol), but I wasn't even aware of the image of the Railfreight Coal 26/56 combo until I found it last night.

Possibly oddest, admittedly on a private line, was 88008 topping 26043.

 

[Strathclyder]

Possibly oddest, admittedly on a private line, was 88008 topping 26043.

It took me a lot longer than I care to admit to realize just what kind of 88 it was you were referring to...

 

[D6130]

Following on from the very popular thread about the North British Type 2 locomotives (classes 21, 22 & 29), I'm also very interested in the nearly-as-charismatic Birmingham RCW/Sulzer class 27s, which re-established their supremacy on my local West Highland Line upon the demise of the 29s in 1970-71. As originally built, there were three variants: D5347-69 (steam heating, tablet-catcher recess and sliding cabside windows - allocated to the Scottish Region at 65A, Eastfield); D5370-78 (no heating, drop-down cabside windows - allocated to the North Eastern Region at 51L, Thornaby) and D5379-5415 (steam heating and drop-down cabside windows - allocated to the London Midland Region Midland Lines, in practice either Cricklewood or Leicester). By the time the class 29s bowed-out at the end of 1971, all of the 27s - except for collision write-off D5383 - had been concentrated in Scotland and quite a few had been converted to operate the then new Edinburgh-Glasgow high speed push-pull service. By this time there were at least 12 different livery variations and many detail differences - including rubber grommet or aluminium windscreen frames, cab-end corridor connection doors either still extant, welded-up or plated-over, etc. I would be very interested to hear your memories, opinions, observations and experiences of these locomotives.

 

[Richard Scott]

Was very late to this party, only saw a few 27s in traffic as first trip to Scotland was 1987. Seem to remember seeing one at Perth and Motherwell awaiting scrapping, one was 27018, I believe. Saw 27066 then many years later had an opportunity to drive it towing 24081 (driver decided the 27 should do all the work, no issues with the 24) and load 12, loads of noise and fun!!!

 

[86247]

By the time I went to Scotland either 88 or 89 their was on one 27 on BR books at the time I think and that was the ADB one can't remember the number that was parked at Eastfield .

 

[CW2]

I first travelled to Scotland in 1979, other than a two-week school hiking trip in 1974, and I worked in Glasgow Control from 1984 to 1987. By that time the use of 27s on the West Highland Line was quite rare, since 37s handled all the passenger trains and most of the freight. The Edinburgh - Dundee circuit was pretty much solid class 27 (there was a single class 47 diagram), and the introduction of the "Arbroath"* diagram added to the variety. 27s were also common substitutes on the G&SW route, and to Stranraer - sometimes in pairs.

In later years the standard of maintenance and the lack of overhauls meant the class 27 fleet became synonymous with unreliability and lateness. Some particular locos were especially poor, and wherever possible were confined to light work around Millerhill, or local trips from Ayr. The 27s were always entertaining, and a central character in the Scottish scene of the 80s.

* If my memory serves me correctly, the Arbroath diagram involved a set starting at Dundee, then working Dundee - Edinburgh, Edinburgh - Perth, Perth - Glasgow Queen Street, 16:03 Glasgow Queen Street - Arbroath, then 18:50 Arbroath to Dundee. I can't recall what the diagrammed traction was, but 27s, 37s and 47s all turned up on it from time to time. Once when I was on early shift I was left a note that I had to move a 27 from Perth to Dundee for weekend engineering work, but there were no spare drivers available to do it. There was a 27 on the Arbroath diagram that day, so during the layover at Perth I got them to multi it up with the spare 27, and it ran as a pair of 27s Perth - Queen St - Arbroath - Dundee. I clocked them at over 100 mph approaching Carnoustie on the Queen St - Arbroath leg!

 

[hexagon789]

I first travelled to Scotland in 1979, other than a two-week school hiking trip in 1974, and I worked in Glasgow Control from 1984 to 1987. By that time the use of 27s on the West Highland Line was quite rare, since 37s handled all the passenger trains and most of the freight. The Edinburgh - Dundee circuit was pretty much solid class 27 (there was a single class 47 diagram), and the introduction of the "Arbroath"* diagram added to the variety. 27s were also common substitutes on the G&SW route, and to Stranraer - sometimes in pairs.

In later years the standard of maintenance and the lack of overhauls meant the class 27 fleet became synonymous with unreliability and lateness. Some particular locos were especially poor, and wherever possible were confined to light work around Millerhill, or local trips from Ayr. The 27s were always entertaining, and a central character in the Scottish scene of the 80s.

* If my memory serves me correctly, the Arbroath diagram involved a set starting at Dundee, then working Dundee - Edinburgh, Edinburgh - Perth, Perth - Glasgow Queen Street, 16:03 Glasgow Queen Street - Arbroath, then 18:50 Arbroath to Dundee. I can't recall what the diagrammed traction was, but 27s, 37s and 47s all turned up on it from time to time. Once when I was on early shift I was left a note that I had to move a 27 from Perth to Dundee for weekend engineering work, but there were no spare drivers available to do it. There was a 27 on the Arbroath diagram that day, so during the layover at Perth I got them to multi it up with the spare 27, and it ran as a pair of 27s Perth - Queen St - Arbroath - Dundee. I clocked them at over 100 mph approaching Carnoustie on the Queen St - Arbroath leg!

They managed the 'ton' more than a few times on the shuttle, and it's a reasonably straight and level stretch from Dundee-Arbroath.

 

[Harvester]

I can remember the Thornaby batch D5370-D5378. They arrived new in early 1962, and then seemed to be used extensively on Tees Yard to York freight workings. Checking through my 1962 notebook, all my sightings were at Thornaby, Eaglescliffe and Northallerton.

 

[D6130]

I can remember the Thornaby batch D5370-D5378. They arrived new in early 1962, and then seemed to be used extensively on Tees Yard to York freight workings. Checking through my 1962 notebook, all my sightings were at Thornaby, Eaglescliffe and Northallerton.

Yes....and nearly always double-headed with the gangways connected - despite having no need for steam heating, with which they were not equipped anyway. I used to see them passing my grandparents' house at Eaglescliffe.