Class 28: Metro-Vick Type 2 Co-Bo

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Inversnecky

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I presume this is a Western diesel hydraulic? It’s not a Class 42 “Baby Warship”, though, but I can’t think what it is. Can the experts here please help me out? TIA...
 

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Inversnecky

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It’s not a hydraulic. It’s a “loaf”, better known as the Metro-Vick Type 2 Co-Bo, or Class 28 under TOPS.
Thanks, which will explain why it didn’t appear under a search for diesel hydraulics.

Only 20 produced, which no doubt explains why I’ve not come across it before.


Have edited the original post title to be less confusing.
 

hexagon789

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I presume this is a Western diesel hydraulic? It’s not a Class 42 “Baby Warship”, though, but I can’t think what it is. Can the experts here please help me out? TIA...
One of the none top reliable Met-Vick Co-Bos. Only class to use the unusual Co-Bo wheel arrangement with one six and one four-wheeled bogie, intended to give more equitable weight distribution.

Fitted with a 1,200hp Crossley engine of the same design as that used by the CIÉ 'A' Class. It gave nothing but trouble on both classes.

The headboard reads 'Condor' a sort of predecessor to freightliners, it was an overnight container freight working usually double headed by this class and run between Hendon on the MML to Gushetfaulds near Glasgow running via the S&C.

It used special roller-bearing stock, usually load 27, up to 550 tons. Roughly a 10 hour non-stop journey time albeit with a crew stop at Carlisle.
 

WesternLancer

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I presume this is a Western diesel hydraulic? It’s not a Class 42 “Baby Warship”, though, but I can’t think what it is. Can the experts here please help me out? TIA...
If, back in the day, you had had a Hornby Dublo train set you may have had one (or seen it in the catalogue) however!


Quite why they decided to tool up to model this 'dud' design is no doubt a question for another thread / forum - but it probably helps shed light on the deciosion making processes at Meccano Ltd that resulted in Hornby going bankrupt.

maybe the chaps Hornby Dublo were seduced by Mr Cuneo's superb painting of the loco hauling the Condor named express freight train?
 

swt_passenger

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My younger brother had the Hornby set which included a class 28 Co-Bo, it must have been about 65/66 ish?

I remember him asking dad if it was a real BR loco...

...and as @WesternLancer points out, it did seem a bad choice for a basic set. Maybe it was a cunning plan to encourage you to buy another loco very soon afterwards?
 
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Gloster

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Didn’t Lone Star produced a model of the Class 23 ‘Baby Deltic’ in OOO? Another ‘success’ of the modernisation plan.
 

Dunfanaghy Rd

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D5715 spent time stored at Derby Loco Works (with the last Baby Deltic). Granny knew someone who knew someone and I had a conducted tour in 1973 (I think, there were 3 × 3F tanks and the 5XP Leander in for overhaul).) My guide was very dismissive of the CoBo. I understood him to say that there was only one door to each cab, access to the off side being by the Engine Bay.
Pat
 

Gloster

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TDB968006, previously D5705 and S15705, arrived in Bristol from Danygraig 10-02-1976 for carriage heating work, but was withdrawn in September 1977. It was stored out of use, latterly at Bath Road, until moved to Swindon 11 June 1980. All Class 22 were scrapped by the end of 1972.

Source: Volume 4 of Roger Harris’ The Allocation History of BR Diesels & Electrics (Third Edition).
 

GRALISTAIR

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Are you sure?
There was a 22 dumped by the bridge and visible from the road 1977-80, never saw a 28 there

My photos are back in the UK so it will have to wai until I am back to be 100% sure and then I will post the photo.

TDB968006, previously D5705 and S15705, arrived in Bristol from Danygraig 10-02-1976 for carriage heating work, but was withdrawn in September 1977. It was stored out of use, latterly at Bath Road, until moved to Swindon 11 June 1980. All Class 22 were scrapped by the end of 1972.

Source: Volume 4 of Roger Harris’ The Allocation History of BR Diesels & Electrics (Third Edition).

That is the one I was thinking of.
 

Gloster

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It was withdrawn on 07-09-1968 and sent to Derby RTC by 12-1968. It was renumbered S15705 (carriage stock number) in 02-1969 and used “in adhesion experiments in connection with the development of the plasma torch” at various locations. It was renumbered TDB968006 in 02-1975, having been out of use since, at the latest, 11-1973.

Source as in #16.
 

WesternLancer

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My younger brother had the Hornby set which included a class 28 Co-Bo, it must have been about 65/66 ish?

I remember him asking dad if it was a real BR loco...

...and as @WesternLancer points out, it did seem a bad choice for a basic set. Maybe it was a cunning plan to encourage you to buy another loco very soon afterwards?
Maybe! :lol:That would have been a quality set - but probably sold off cheaply - with the end of Hornby Dublo production (on sale of the business to Triang) in 1964 I believe the Co-Bos were an item where large stocks of unsold models were inherited by Tri-ang - so they would have sold them cheaply I suspect to shift them. Given Dublo's legendary high quality of construction it would have been a far better runner than the real thing I suspect!

Hornby made sensible choices of steam outline models, but their choice of this in 'modern' image models was a distinctly weird option - but like I saw maybe the Co-Bo got a lot of publicity due to the association with the Condor freights?

Their other modern image locos made more sense - an O8, a Class 20, a Deltic and and a Class 81 electric - all pre tops of course.


Back on topic -
I'd love to see the preserved one up and running!
 

furnessvale

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They also emitted a distinct throb which you didn't so much hear as feel through your body and head. When the late afternoon Manchester-Barrow came into Preston station, you could feel the throb in Ladywell House, despite its distance from the station, long before you saw the train emerge.
 

Taunton

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There was much glowing publicity when the wondertrain Co-Bos first came out in the late 1950s, which fizzled out after a short while. The model makers probably took their cues from that.

Metrovick had a series of problems and eventually faded away in mergers. At the same time theirs was the electrical gear (which they had hitherto been good at) in the Glasgow Blue Trains and GE suburban units which got serious transformer explosions at the 6.25/25kV interfaces, and led to their withdrawal until resolved. Other simultaneous suppliers did not have this issue. They had no real background in being prime contractor and builder of locomotives, having just been an electrical supplier.

Crossley the same, they had been taken over by AEC and were on their way out too. I recall when the Co-Bos were all dumped after just a couple of years it came to the attention of the national press, who asked Crossley for a comment; they were told (and thus printed) "The engines have completed their warranty period. They are the responsibility of British Railways". So much for product support, hey?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I've got a very bad picture of one at Altrincham station in 1962, working a Tunstead-Northwich ICI limestone train.
They were tried on that service but supposedly couldn't handle braking on the long descents like the previous 8Fs, and so were sent back to Barrow.
One of the more useless modernisation plan purchases.
 
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billh

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I commented in another thread about class28. What exactly was the problem with the Crossley engines fitted? They had an excellent reputation for stationary and marine engines much like English Electric had prior to any rail application. They had been in the engine building business for donkey's years before CoBos were even thought of.
I only ever saw one 28 in operation, it was one evening , just going dark, a lot of noise and a shower of sparks from the exhaust, very dramatic but did not inspire confidence!
 

6Gman

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I commented in another thread about class28. What exactly was the problem with the Crossley engines fitted? They had an excellent reputation for stationary and marine engines much like English Electric had prior to any rail application. They had been in the engine building business for donkey's years before CoBos were even thought of.
I only ever saw one 28 in operation, it was one evening , just going dark, a lot of noise and a shower of sparks from the exhaust, very dramatic but did not inspire confidence!
Crossley engines were pretty poorly regarded in bus use.

A colleague swears he saw a driver press the engine start button on a Co-Bo and then leap off the loco immediately, such was their reputation for combustibility, but he may have been exaggerating. :D
 

Gloster

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I commented in another thread about class28. What exactly was the problem with the Crossley engines fitted? They had an excellent reputation for stationary and marine engines much like English Electric had prior to any rail application. They had been in the engine building business for donkey's years before CoBos were even thought of.
I have a vague recollection of reading something in connection with the Irish locos that said that it was related to the varying loads or engine speeds that were required when in rail use. When in marine and stationary use the output is much steadier. Someone with better technical knowledge may be able to confirm or correct this.
 

father_jack

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There's still one with the Crossley power unit down under, although now under repair compared to 1990 in this fillim.
 

Beebman

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Some years ago I was surprised to learn that D5701 got a coat of Rail Blue with full yellow ends:



(Photo source: https://pjbrailwayphotos.piwigo.com/picture?/32168)
 
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