Class 28: Metro-Vick Type 2 Co-Bo

[Ashley Hill]

Whilst trawling the Net I found this fictional livery on Pintrest. Not my photo.

 

[simonw]

Great video!


I wonder how much this sold for, you can’t see unless you register.

£27,500

 

[Cowley]

Whilst trawling the Net I found this fictional livery on Pintrest. Not my photo.
View attachment 90579

 

[R Martin]

When I was at Willesden MPD in the 1961 there was a lot of talk about Cricklewood's problems with the Co-Bo's when I was on evening turn I was often asked to carry out a "daily exam" on multiple Type 1.s,which I understood were last resort to help out Cricklewood for a Condor failure. Sometimes when I walked back from the roundhouse they were missing, where they went I don't know they could have been local freight'.

 

[WesternLancer]

Great video!


I wonder how much this sold for, you can’t see unless you register.

An 'excellent plus to mint' condition 2 rail boxed Dublo co-bo sold at auction recently that I can see for £110. Date of manufacture 1961. I think the 3 rail version of the model is less common and thus may command a higher price in top condition, but prob not more than £150 I suspect.

Meanwhile I see the original of the Cuneo painting sold at Christies for £27,500, back in 2018 so not so long ago!

Terence Cuneo (1907-1996)

Night Freight (Condor)

www.christies.com

probably enough to get the surviving co-bo back up and running!

and original BR poster prints fetch about £500-600

When I was at Willesden MPD in the 1961 there was a lot of talk about Cricklewood's problems with the Co-Bo's when I was on evening turn I was often asked to carry out a "daily exam" on multiple Type 1.s,which I understood were last resort to help out Cricklewood for a Condor failure. Sometimes when I walked back from the roundhouse they were missing, where they went I don't know they could have been local freight'.

great personal recollection of these intriguing machines!

£27,500

That's the painting, not the Dublo model in the link I prev posted!
Note sure if you could find enough dublo co-bos to spend £27.5K on.....but you could at least model the whole class and have plnty of change to spare!

 

[simonw]

That's the painting, not the Dublo model in the link I prev posted!
Note sure if you could find enough dublo co-bos to spend £27.5K on.....but you could at least model the whole class and have plnty of change to spare!

I read invernesky's post as enquiring about the price of the painting as the model loco has a price of £135 on the page.

 

[Inversnecky]

I read invernesky's post as enquiring about the price of the painting as the model loco has a price of £135 on the page.

Yes, it was the auction of the painting I was referring to, sorry for the confusion.

I wonder if there’s prints available.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Thanks - wonderful clip! Remarkable that the next line was a running line...

He did have a watchman there with him, and it shows that they didn't take any risks ... no high viz equipment, though!

Where was the mouse?

I think that it's in front of the signal gantry, just by the nearest of the horizontal bars?

Yes, it was the auction of the painting I was referring to, sorry for the confusion.

I wonder if there’s prints available.

Yes, for £19.99 according to something called e-bid, although other versions and prices are no doubt available!

 

[WesternLancer]

I read invernesky's post as enquiring about the price of the painting as the model loco has a price of £135 on the page.

apols, I read it as the opposite - as I saw the Christie's price without any log in - strangely! Thanks however.

Yes, it was the auction of the painting I was referring to, sorry for the confusion.

I wonder if there’s prints available.

seems so - good prices depending on size you want

Night Freight - Terence Cuneo

A British Railways, London Midland Region poster produced by Terence Cuneo to show a 'Night Freight' train working through the night. From the 1940's onward Cuneo was commissioned to paint many railway scenes for posters and his 'Cuneo Mouse' became a popular edition to many of his railway...

www.heritage-posters.co.uk

He did have a watchman there with him, and it shows that they didn't take any risks ... no high viz equipment, though!


I think that it's in front of the signal gantry, just by the nearest of the horizontal bars?



Yes, for £19.99 according to something called e-bid, although other versions and prices are no doubt available!

Thanks for mouse related info!

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Thanks for mouse related info!

My pleasure ... I always try to find the mouse whenever I see one of his paintings, but I don't often succeed!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

My pleasure ... I always try to find the mouse whenever I see one of his paintings, but I don't often succeed!

His earlier paintings don't have the mouse; it was introduced after his cat brought him a present of a dead mouse one day while he was painting - from then on, he always included a mouse.

 

[randyrippley]

That Metrovick / Condor painting was used on the front cover of one of the Hornby Dublo catalogues, around 1964/5
I always assumed they had commissioned it to match the model

 

[EbbwJunction1]

His earlier paintings don't have the mouse; it was introduced after his cat brought him a present of a dead mouse one day while he was painting - from then on, he always included a mouse.

Thanks; I didn't know that, which might explain some of my failures!

 

[WesternLancer]

That Metrovick / Condor painting was used on the front cover of one of the Hornby Dublo catalogues, around 1964/5
I always assumed they had commissioned it to match the model

Thanks - found it - in fact as late as 1972 it seems a long time after Hornby Dublo ceased to exist (maybe they still had old stock co-bos to flog) - which is interesting as post 1964/5 'Hornby' had pretty much nothing at all to do with 'Hornby Dublo' beyond the use of the brand name - or part of it - missing the 'Dublo' of course, and the real Co-Bos were pretty much gone by then too.

Catalogue cover image pictured here

Category:Tri-ang Hornby

www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk

Reading that link it seems Hornby/Triang did commission one of the Cuneo cover art pics directly (with Evening Star), but they must have had permission for the artist of BR to use the Co-Bo Condor artwork I guess.

 

[Inversnecky]

A video of Me Cuneo at work on the painting.

Do they still employ fine chaps like this to keep an eye out on the tracks? Looks like he should be delivering a fanfare!

A grab from this delightful 1960s cine film.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Is that the picture where Oliver, Toad and the autocoach are hiding?

That's the one.

 

[Cowley]

That's the one.

Yes!
(Still got it...)

 

[d9009alycidon]

The OP might be interested that the Co-Bos were not unknown in Scotland. During the period when they were employed on the Condor express freight, the local sheds were not slow in giving them something to do during the day. They were seen of various local freights and passenger services, making it as far north as Stirling

Potted history of the class workings here http://nicwhe8.freehostia.com/d5705/history/history.html

 

[Inversnecky]

The OP might be interested that the Co-Bos were not unknown in Scotland. During the period when they were employed on the Condor express freight, the local sheds were not slow in giving them something to do during the day. They were seen of various local freights and passenger services, making it as far north as Stirling

Potted history of the class workings here http://nicwhe8.freehostia.com/d5705/history/history.html

Thanks for that.

 

[Strathclyder]

Related to this thread (as they've been mentioned a few times), I happened to stumble across two vids detailing the conversion process of CIÉ's 001 & 201 classes from Crossley to EMD power (both from the Gerry Conmy YT channel) a day or two ago. Thought they'd be of interest to some here:

 

[grumpyoldman01]

I wasn't aware of all of Crossley's history until just digging about on the internet, but I knew that Crossley Motors - the bus business - had been sold to ACV (AEC's parent) in the early 1950s, but that the Co-Bo's engine manufacturer was still going strong much later; I remember them as Crossley Premier Engines, and their factory was passed when heading from Manchester to Sheffield via Woodhead. These locos were built in a joint venture factory in Stockton set up by Beyer Peacock and Metropolitan Vickers, but I've no idea why it was built there as both of them were Manchester based; moreover, the Crossley factory which built these engines was close to Beyer Peacock's in Gorton, and so as they were neighbours, perhaps they were natural bedfellows.

There were at least four diesel engine manufacturers based in greater Manchester area back in the early 1950s; Gardner's at Patricroft, Mirrlees at Hazel Grove, this Crossley in Openshaw, and the bus Crossley at Stockport. And of course English Electric wasn't far away at the Vulcan Foundry at Newton-le-Willows

I travelled behind the Co-Bos quite a lot in the early 1960s when they were based at Barrow, and I never experienced a failure; however, you could tell when one was put on at Carnforth - the entire train vibrated!

Metropolitan Vickers electrical equipment had quite a good reputation - the only problem I can think of was the transformer failures on the 303s; and it is true that BR planned to re-engine them with English Electric power units - the first twenty fitted to class 30s were actually purchased for the class 28 re-engining programme

 

[Western 52]

If the class had been re-engined, I wonder if they'd have been re-classified? Class 32 maybe? As a small non-standard class they probably wouldn't have lasted long, given BR policy on standardisation at that time.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I travelled behind the Co-Bos quite a lot in the early 1960s when they were based at Barrow, and I never experienced a failure; however, you could tell when one was put on at Carnforth - the entire train vibrated!

Why would one be put on at Carnforth? I mean, what engine changes were made there?

Life for Barrow-based Co-Bos would have been an awful lot easier than on the Midland, I'd imagine. Given their 75 mph limitation, I assume that the St Pancras - Manchester Central workings, along with the Condor, would have been quite taxing jobs - given the banks involved. Very different from trundling around the Cumbrian coast.

I only ever saw them working double-headed on the Midland - in fact, I was so used to diesels being double headed that when I saw the very first Cl 45 approaching one lunchtime, I asked a loco driver nearby to help me get the second loco number!

In the end, the diesel turned out to be a solo D11, shining brand new off Derby Works, with a test train, and going only at about 50 mph. This would have been August, 1960.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Why would one be put on at Carnforth? I mean, what engine changes were made there?

Certainly in 1963 - 4 there was a train which I joined at Lancaster on a number of occasions which had a Black 5 as far as Carnforth, and the Co-Bo took over for the rest of the run to Workington; I don't know where the train started from

 

[70014IronDuke]

Certainly in 1963 - 4 there was a train which I joined at Lancaster on a number of occasions which had a Black 5 as far as Carnforth, and the Co-Bo took over for the rest of the run to Workington; I don't know where the train started from

Interesting. Perhaps they didn't trust the Co-Bos on the main line!

EDIT - And in the spirit of solidarity with grumpyoldman01, may I say how annoying it is to have supposed 'nicknames' affixed to locomotive classes long after they have disappeared.

These locomotives were NEVER called by the abomination that the OP put into the title of this thread.

Indeed, I would like to lobby the powers at be in this group to remove threads with such misleading and inaccurate titles and BAN OPs for life for effectively re-writing the history and abusing the good name of the locomotives affected.

 

[D6130]

Certainly in 1963 - 4 there was a train which I joined at Lancaster on a number of occasions which had a Black 5 as far as Carnforth, and the Co-Bo took over for the rest of the run to Workington; I don't know where the train started from

Would that have been the Euston-Workington TPO, which I believe also conveyed seating accommodation?.......in which case it may well have been hauled by a class 40 from Euston to Crewe, a Black 5 to Carnforth, where it would probably have needed coaling and watering and therefore relieving by the Co-Bo with a Barrow crew.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Would that have been the Euston-Workington TPO, which I believe also conveyed seating accommodation?.......in which case it may well have been hauled by a class 40 from Euston to Crewe, a Black 5 to Carnforth, where it would probably have needed coaling and watering and therefore relieving by the Co-Bo with a Barrow crew.

It may have been that train, but not for coaling or taking water. A Class 5 taking over at Crewe would be perfectly capable of working the train all the way to Workington in terms of coal. In terms of water, it would almost certainly take water at Preston and Barrow - but in any case there were troughs at Hest Bank and surely some between Crewe and Preston - probably around Weaver at least. I forget.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Interesting. Perhaps they didn't trust the Co-Bos on the main line!

You say that in jest, but they were very rare at that time on the WCML south of Carnforth

There was one which headed south from Lancaster sometime after 19.00, and some local enthusiasts specifically went out to see it

Would that have been the Euston-Workington TPO, which I believe also conveyed seating accommodation?.......in which case it may well have been hauled by a class 40 from Euston to Crewe, a Black 5 to Carnforth, where it would probably have needed coaling and watering and therefore relieving by the Co-Bo with a Barrow crew.

I can't remember there being any TPOs on the train, and it wasn't particularly early in the morning

I had a cousin who lived at Seascale and there was a train south from there at about 19.00 which was hauled by a Co-Bo but I think it was taken off at Barrow; was a sleeping car added there, and then another at Preston, with the train eventually arriving at Euston the following morning?

In the early 1960s I always spent some of my school summer holidays with family in Lancaster and had a Runabout Ticket for a week; it included the Settle & Carlisle, and I usually made a point of catching the Saturday Manchester Vic - Glasgow train which went over Ais Gill behind a Black 5 (I think everything else was diesel)

 

[furnessvale]

It may have been that train, but not for coaling or taking water. A Class 5 taking over at Crewe would be perfectly capable of working the train all the way to Workington in terms of coal. In terms of water, it would almost certainly take water at Preston and Barrow - but in any case there were troughs at Hest Bank and surely some between Crewe and Preston - probably around Weaver at least. I forget.

Troughs at Brock and, without checking, Moore rings a bell.

 

[muddythefish]

Carlisle Citadel station, 1967 was my only sighting of a Co-Bo working a train. We'd been on a school spotting trip to Upperby and Kingmoor (we saw 40 Britannias in one day IIRC!) and were waiting for the train back to Preston (hauled by an EE Type 4) when a Co-Bo trundled through the station heading south with a mixed unfitted goods train. I remember the distinctive noise of the engine. Hopefully D5705 will be restored to working order work one day - in my lifetime hopefully!