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Class 304 EMUs

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AY1975

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The AM4/Class 304 EMUs used to make a kind of roaring sound when starting up. Does anyone know what was happening here?

I believe that they were nicknamed dinosaurs by enthusiasts in their twilight years because of their advancing age (and because of that roaring sound?).

There is a YouTube clip of them on their last day in service, on the Cross City line in 1996. The roaring sound starts at 3 minutes 45 seconds into the clip. See

There is also a now closed thread on the 304s at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-304s.93311
 
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Peter Mugridge

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I understand that to be cooling fans for the motors. The first generation electric locomotives ( classes 81 to 85 ) did that as well.
 

Ash Bridge

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I'm not absolutely certain but would imagine it is the sound of the units traction motors blowers as is also heard on electric locomotives.
 

Helvellyn

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I think the dinosaur name was also because when refurbished in the early 1980s they didn't get the London & South Eastern treatment of lowered ceilings, fluorescent lights and new seats but rather pretty much kept the original interiors. Same as the Class 303s that came down from Strathclyde.

8472728_orig.jpg

Class 304 interior (https://www.mattypsrailwaypics.com/uploads/9/3/9/5/9395206/8472728_orig.jpg)

307-refurbishment-insidea.jpg

Refurbished Class 307 interior (http://citytransport.info/Scans/307-refurbishment-insidea.jpg)
 

Cowley

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I think the dinosaur name was also because when refurbished in the early 1980s they didn't get the London & South Eastern treatment of lowered ceilings, fluorescent lights and new seats but rather pretty much kept the original interiors. Same as the Class 303s that came down from Strathclyde.

8472728_orig.jpg

Class 304 interior (https://www.mattypsrailwaypics.com/uploads/9/3/9/5/9395206/8472728_orig.jpg)

307-refurbishment-insidea.jpg

Refurbished Class 307 interior (http://citytransport.info/Scans/307-refurbishment-insidea.jpg)
Really interesting and thanks for putting the photos up.
I remember the 304s being decidedly under lit inside, and with a very old fashioned feel to them.
 

43096

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I think the dinosaur name was also because when refurbished in the early 1980s they didn't get the London & South Eastern treatment of lowered ceilings, fluorescent lights and new seats but rather pretty much kept the original interiors. Same as the Class 303s that came down from Strathclyde.

8472728_orig.jpg

Class 304 interior (https://www.mattypsrailwaypics.com/uploads/9/3/9/5/9395206/8472728_orig.jpg)

307-refurbishment-insidea.jpg

Refurbished Class 307 interior (http://citytransport.info/Scans/307-refurbishment-insidea.jpg)
The 304s were never refurbished as such - they just had their seats re-trimmed as necessary at overhaul. The only exceptions were the non-corridor MBS vehicles in 304001-015 which were opened out to make them MBSOs, at which time new seats were fitted.

One thing I can’t remember is if the 4 sets repainted into Regional Railways livery had their seats re-trimmed? If they did I would guess in either RR style or even with the NSE-type blue?
 

43096

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I thought it was the cooling fan for the germanium rectifiers on these units. Later designs used silicon rectifiers which do not require fan cooling.
Were the 304s not converted to silicon rectifiers, then?
 

Springs Branch

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-- snip --
I remember the 304s being decidedly under lit inside, and with a very old fashioned feel to them.
This thread brings back some memories of the Class 304s in the north-west.

I agree with @Cowley's observation - the modest level of interior lighting was one thing I particularly remember. The yellowish incandescent bulbs gave the carriages quite a warm and inviting look from the outside on a winter's evening in Manchester, but it was distinctly gloomy once sitting inside.

Other things to recall:-
  • The very old-school railway experience sitting on those bouncy 1960s-era grey/white/red-covered seats, clickety-clacking along jointed track on the Altrincham line.
  • Non-corridor compartments (a unique experience in NW England in the 1970s), which I'd always seek out, oblivious to any potential danger to a youth travelling alone.
  • The whirr and roar of the traction motors (as per OP video clip) whilst sitting in one of said compartments in the MBS. No problem having the drop-lights right down to enjoy the thrash, as I was always the only occupant.
  • Even in open saloons, seeing hardly any other passengers in my carriage on any of the Alderley Edge/Altrincham/Macclesfield trains outside peak hour. Deansgate station was invariably deserted during off-peak, and Oxford Road had a small fraction of passengers compared to today (but a lot fewer trains & destinations, of course)
A bit later, in the early 1980s, I used the 304s intermittently on business trips - usually to or from an Inter-City connection at Crewe.

I'd have a First Class ticket, meaning I could legitimately use the First Class compartments which the units still had at that time. Most of these side-corridor compartments were mercilessly vandalized by this stage, and I guess with the Trailer Composites having a limited lifespan by then, BR gave up making any repairs. It was usually more pleasant less unpleasant to sit in the adjacent Second Class open saloon than the grim, damaged compartments.
 
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Ianno87

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I have very very distant hazy memories of using them around Manchester, but I do remember the springy seats and notably dimly lit interior - especially if you went under a particular long/skewed bridge.

The last time I got on one at Stockport 95/96 or so), we went nowhere at all - it broke down in the platform!
 

yorksrob

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I think the dinosaur name was also because when refurbished in the early 1980s they didn't get the London & South Eastern treatment of lowered ceilings, fluorescent lights and new seats but rather pretty much kept the original interiors. Same as the Class 303s that came down from Strathclyde.

8472728_orig.jpg

Class 304 interior (https://www.mattypsrailwaypics.com/uploads/9/3/9/5/9395206/8472728_orig.jpg)

307-refurbishment-insidea.jpg

Refurbished Class 307 interior (http://citytransport.info/Scans/307-refurbishment-insidea.jpg)

The 304 interior looks rather more relaxing and comfortable than the more thorough refurbishments of 307's and 308's
 

nw1

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I think the first type of train I ever travelled on must have been a 304, as I have vague memories of travelling occasionally by train between Sale and Altrincham in around 1976, early 1977 or so, though was very young at the time so don't remember any detail. I think I might have a vague memory of the lights (as in the picture above) and the interior being quite dark (it's reminiscent of a 2HAP, which I did travel on occasionally in the 80s) but that's all.

It's conceivable we might have occasionally got a DMU as well as the Chester "expresses" called at Sale, or at least they did later, in 1984, when I have clear memories of revisiting the area.

I know 304s were on this route in 1984; I presume from the comments above that they were also used on the line in the 1970s.

Didn't realise they were still going as late as 1996 (I thought they went perhaps 1989/90 or so) and certainly not on the Cross-City line: I thought this went straight from DMUs to 323s.
 
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Taunton

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A feature of the 304s that never got explained was that the first 15, 001-015, were ordered for the South Manchester 25Kv electrification. Fair enough, although a bit tight for the requirement. But then 20, 016-035, were then ordered for the Crewe-Liverpool electrification. This never needed more than 3 units for the daily service, so why were so many booked to this part of the scheme. The last 10, 036-045, were ostensibly for further south, Stoke and Birmingham, but delivered years before the electrification was completed there, and which finally used all the surplus units.
 

Springs Branch

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When the first 304s were introduced in Manchester around 1960, the extent of their operation was Oxford Rd or Piccadilly to Wilmslow, Alderley Edge and Crewe (either via Stockport or Styal).
Later in the 1960s up until 1971, more local services from Manchester were allocated to the 304s - the Macclesfield / Stoke line was electrified around 1968, and the Oxford Rd / Altrincham line converted to 25kV & class 304 operation in 1971.

Maybe the second batch (described as 304/2 in my old Combined Volume, and featuring more open saloons and fewer Second Class compartments than 001-015) was intended for Crewe / Liverpool, plus Manchester / Stoke plus the Altrincham AC services.
But as shorthand they were just described as "Liverpool" units.

I used these trains quite a bit in the 1970s and remember the 304/1 usually (but not exclusively) working Altrincham/Alderley Edge via Styal, while 304/2s did Altrincham/Alderley Edge or Crewe via Stockport and the Manchester/Stoke/Stafford/Birmingham stoppers - and of course a small handful were needed for Crewe / Liverpool Lime St.
 

nw1

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I also remember 304s running the very occasional Stafford to Nuneaton/Rugby stopper (about one every 3 hours, so presumably only one unit needed) in the 1980s, and also recall some of the Altrincham trains in 1984 extending to Hazel Grove (I think there were 2 an hour to Alderley Edge, one to Crewe and one to Hazel Grove).

Another associated memory is how poor the Penkridge service was in the 1980s, very surprising for a large village close to Birmingham. It was largely 304 operated, but there was only about one train every 3 hours on a Saturday but Mon-Fri it appeared to be peak only! These were extensions of more frequent Wolverhampton-Coventry stoppers, also run by 304s at the time.
 

jonesy3001

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The 304s also served the Glossop/Hadfield line mixed with the 303s and 305s after conversion to 25kv, remember getting them from piccadilly to flowery field
 

AM9

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I always thought 304s needed the deep cushions because of the "rather bouncy" ride from their Gresley-type bogies!
... and the abundance of well worn jointed track and unswitched diamond crossings, - both quite common on suburban lines in the '60s.
 

The_Engineer

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In the 1960s and certainly up until the Altrincham line was converted, Class 304 were also used extensively in the midlands on local services Stoke/Stafford to Wolverhampton and Birmingham, Stafford to Rugby, Rugby - Coventry - Birmingham stoppers and Birmingham to Walsall. Class 310s worked all locals and semi-fasts out of Euston, plus they did a Birmingham to Piccadilly semi-fast every other hour.

I used 304s extensively in the late 60s and especially 74 - 78 when I commuted into Liverpool from Acton Bridge for studies. Coming home on the 304 was always exciting for the Runcorn to Acton Bridge run around the Weaver Junction area where maximum speed and seat springiness could cause you to leave the seat cushions briefly!!
 

Taunton

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I also remember 304s running the very occasional Stafford to Nuneaton/Rugby stopper (about one every 3 hours, so presumably only one unit needed) in the 1980s.
I believe that this stopping service (the only one serving quite significant places on the main line like Lichfield TV or Tamworth LL, as well as the minor stations) was very inefficiently diagrammed, so it needed two units which passed en route.

Another odd run was, once the northern WCML was electrified in 1973, a once daily stopper from Crewe to Preston, north in the morning, back in the afternoon, the only emu to venture so far north. It went round through Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows, the only electric service I believe to do so.
 

AY1975

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A bit later, in the early 1980s, I used the 304s intermittently on business trips - usually to or from an Inter-City connection at Crewe.

I'd have a First Class ticket, meaning I could legitimately use the First Class compartments which the units still had at that time. Most of these side-corridor compartments were mercilessly vandalized by this stage, and I guess with the Trailer Composites having a limited lifespan by then, BR gave up making any repairs. It was usually more pleasant less unpleasant to sit in the adjacent Second Class open saloon than the grim, damaged compartments.

I grew up with the 304s. I lived in London but my dad's from Manchester, and I had many a journey on them as a kid in the early to mid '80s to visit my great aunt and great uncle in East Didsbury and my gran when she was in a nursing home on Wilbraham Road, about half an hour's walk from Stretford station in the days before Metrolink.

I think First Class was officially abolished on all GMPTE supported services in about 1983, and I remember travelling in the declassified First Class compartments on the 304s. They were often in a rather sorry state, but worth it for the extra comfort even if the lights in them often weren't working, the First Class signs had been removed or painted over, and the wall-mounted reading lamps had been removed and there were covers where they had been. I think they originally had the same style of reading lamps as the First Class compartments on the 302s in as-built condition, with semi-circular shaped lampshades. Sometimes they retained the original First Class grey seat moquette after being declassified, and some of them had this replaced by BR's then standard trojan grey or blue/green moquette. By about 1986 the 304s had all been reduced to 3-car units, though.
 

6Gman

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I believe that this stopping service (the only one serving quite significant places on the main line like Lichfield TV or Tamworth LL, as well as the minor stations) was very inefficiently diagrammed, so it needed two units which passed en route.

Another odd run was, once the northern WCML was electrified in 1973, a once daily stopper from Crewe to Preston, north in the morning, back in the afternoon, the only emu to venture so far north. It went round through Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows, the only electric service I believe to do so.

I travelled on the last ever Preston 304. It looked really odd at Preston. Wasn't exactly busy in either direction.
 

Springs Branch

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I travelled on the last ever Preston 304. It looked really odd at Preston. Wasn't exactly busy in either direction.
The once-a-day 304 to Preston always looked out of place going through Wigan too. I think I read somewhere that this EMU was provided as something of a staff train when some BR jobs based at Crewe were relocated to Preston - maybe to placate union objections.

In the 1975 timetable this ran as 1P82 09:17 from Crewe, calling at Hartford, Warrington & Wigan, arriving Preston at 10:10
Return was 1K82 15:00 from Preston, stopping Wigan and Warrington only, arriving Crewe at 15:54.
I wonder if the Crewe crew were booked to spend the day playing cards and drinking tea in the Preston mess room in true 1970s style? Maybe one of those turns for the old hands just about to retire?

Regarding the Stafford/Rugby Trent Valley stoppers, I had had it in mind that these were worked by Class 310s (based on memories of whizzing past them on an Inter-City). A quick Google image search shows that Class 304s were indeed regular performers on this sporadic service, so I've learned something useful today.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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I believe that this stopping service (the only one serving quite significant places on the main line like Lichfield TV or Tamworth LL, as well as the minor stations) was very inefficiently diagrammed, so it needed two units which passed en route.

Even more bizarrely there were times when it was DMU operated. That was certainly true when I used it to connect with a railtour in February 1992. I suspect it was due to some sort of wrangle between different BR sub-sectors.

Another odd run was, once the northern WCML was electrified in 1973, a once daily stopper from Crewe to Preston, north in the morning, back in the afternoon, the only emu to venture so far north. It went round through Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows, the only electric service I believe to do so.

I remember stumbling across this in one of my earliest GBTTs and wondering why it was there. There were occasional other oddballs. Once in September 1989 I turned up at Crewe to ride a diverted WCML service via Manchester to find a service being advertised for Warrington Bank Quay only: a 304 was sat in one of the northern bays to work it. And I'm sure I have seen a photo of a 304 in the bays at Wigan North Western after working a similar service.
 

nw1

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Even more bizarrely there were times when it was DMU operated. That was certainly true when I used it to connect with a railtour in February 1992. I suspect it was due to some sort of wrangle between different BR sub-sectors.



I remember stumbling across this in one of my earliest GBTTs and wondering why it was there. There were occasional other oddballs. Once in September 1989 I turned up at Crewe to ride a diverted WCML service via Manchester to find a service being advertised for Warrington Bank Quay only: a 304 was sat in one of the northern bays to work it. And I'm sure I have seen a photo of a 304 in the bays at Wigan North Western after working a similar service.

Strange one, but these sort of idiosyncratic workings did seem more common in the old days and what helped make the railways of the time more interesting. Could that have been a connection off a London service at Crewe in an hour when there was no through service, to maintain an hourly (by connection) London to Warrington link?
 

87015

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Even more bizarrely there were times when it was DMU operated. That was certainly true when I used it to connect with a railtour in February 1992. I suspect it was due to some sort of wrangle between different BR sub-sectors.
Was that not in the period when some of the trains ran through to Cov and therefore somewhat had to be a DMU?!
 

theblackwatch

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I always thought 304s needed the deep cushions because of the "rather bouncy" ride from their Gresley-type bogies!

I remember having fun bouncing on those seats on the way from Stockport to Crewe on our spotting trips, as well as pulling the hairs out of the seats. You could also bang on the seats with your hand and generate a large cloud of dust. Travelling by train used to be good fun as kids! :D
 

Mag_seven

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Another odd run was, once the northern WCML was electrified in 1973, a once daily stopper from Crewe to Preston, north in the morning, back in the afternoon, the only emu to venture so far north. It went round through Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows, the only electric service I believe to do so.

I'm sure a 304 even reached Carlisle on a service train during some service disruption in the 1980's.
 

ChiefPlanner

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A friend - ex ASM at Crewe in the 1970's organised a relief train to Euston with a 304 due to severe disruption.

Regional Control intervened and cancelled it at Rugby.
 
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