Class 313s at Liverpool Street, 1994

[prod_pep]

Just wondered if anyone could shed any light on this, please.

This video (from 3.36 onwards) shows a few Class 313 formations at London Liverpool Street on 8th May 1994. I'm guessing from the platforms used it is one of the West Anglia services but the destination blinds can't be read.

I remember from previous threads a couple of mentions of Class 313s running into Liverpool Street during the early days of WAGN. This footage is taken just over a month after the shadow franchise started.

The Class 313s of course were regulars at Liverpool Street from the closure of Broad Street in 1986 until 1992 but I hadn't realised they made a return.

Does anyone know which routes the 313s served during this time and how long they served Liverpool Street for? I'm interested to know if this was just a diversion from their usual Moorgate/Kings Cross route or if some were actually allocated to West Anglia services for a time.

Thanks for any help with this.

 

[me123]

Well FWIW I can tell you exactly what's on the destinations blinds. "Liverpool St".

 

[prod_pep]

Well FWIW I can tell you exactly what's on the destinations blinds. "Liverpool St".

On the one arriving, yes, but it doesn't look like 'Liverpool St' on the one leaving at 4.39.

 

[bgstrowger]

Class 313s used to run into Liverpool Street on services from Watford Junction after Broad Street was closed.

 

[Phil.]

Class 313s used to run into Liverpool Street on services from Watford Junction after Broad Street was closed.

Which is why the Navarino Road curve was constructed linking the N.L.L. with the Liverpool Street line at 'ackney Dahns.

 

[306024]

Which is why the Navarino Road curve was constructed linking the N.L.L. with the Liverpool Street line at 'ackney Dahns.

Nice attempt to speak Cockney by the man from Penzance there

 

[prod_pep]

Class 313s used to run into Liverpool Street on services from Watford Junction after Broad Street was closed.

Indeed, I mentioned this in the top post - they stopped running into Liverpool Street in September 1992 when Primrose Hill closed. This usage of 313s in 1994 is for a different reason.

 

[A0wen]

Indeed, I mentioned this in the top post - they stopped running into Liverpool Street in September 1992 when Primrose Hill closed. This usage of 313s in 1994 is for a different reason.

Don't forget the 313s were also used on the NLL from Richmond to North Woolwich - could it have been a diverson due to engineering?

 

[Wivenswold]

I have a feeling they were used initially on WA as they were available from Broad Street closure. The influx of more 317s in 1995 probably spelled their end. I remember getting a 313 from Bethnal Green to Hackney and that must have been around 1994.

 

[Phil.]

Nice attempt to speak Cockney by the man from Penzance there

Actually I'm originally from Worksop, I retired to Penzance.

 

[prod_pep]

Just to clarify, these are Hornsey 313s (313035/059) as opposed to Bletchley so it definitely isn't an NLL diversion.

 

[CyrusWuff]

One possibility is they were subbing for 315s whilst they were going through overhaul, as they would have been about 20 years old at that point. 321s occasionally appeared on WA services around that time as well.

 

[NSEFAN]

Just to clarify, these are Hornsey 313s (313035/059) as opposed to Bletchley so it definitely isn't an NLL diversion.

Were some West Anglia EMUs not also based at Hornsey at the time? It could well be a substitution in that case?

 

[MrPIC]

A few of the stations along the Lea Valley have 3 car stop boards, so I guess they might have been used on Hertfords or on the Southbury loop at some point? 317's used to be Hornsey Based until the WA ones got put over to Ilford

 

[Juniper Driver]

One possibility is they were subbing for 315s whilst they were going through overhaul, as they would have been about 20 years old at that point. 321s occasionally appeared on WA services around that time as well.

I doubt that very much.

 

[EC73LDN]

The 313s were used for around 12-18 months IIRC, on the Enfield, Cheshunt and Chingford services that are now part of the Overground. I believe this was to allow withdrawal of the last of the slam-door Class 305 units.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It's interesting how their usage has changed over the years. When new they were used exclusively out of Moorgate and Kings Cross and so intensively that in just two spotting trips to Finsbury Park in 1978 and 1979 I cleared the class for sight. That's 64 units and was the first class for which I "achieved" this.

 

[prod_pep]

The 313s were used for around 12-18 months IIRC, on the Enfield, Cheshunt and Chingford services that are now part of the Overground. I believe this was to allow withdrawal of the last of the slam-door Class 305 units.

Many thanks for this. I'm thinking the 313s might have only been used at peak times or at least on selected services, as I've never seen a photo of a 313 at Liverpool Street dated after the Primrose Hill closure.

It's interesting how their usage has changed over the years. When new they were used exclusively out of Moorgate and Kings Cross and so intensively that in just two spotting trips to Finsbury Park in 1978 and 1979 I cleared the class for sight. That's 64 units and was the first class for which I "achieved" this.

Indeed, things changed so quickly. The service reductions were significant enough to allow the 313s to pop up on the Essex Coast, Bed-Pan, North London Lines and Watford Branches during the 1980s.

 

[Juniper Driver]

The 313s were used for around 12-18 months IIRC, on the Enfield, Cheshunt and Chingford services that are now part of the Overground. I believe this was to allow withdrawal of the last of the slam-door Class 305 units.

Ok,I stand corrected.Sorry.Can't remember it at the time.I thought it was the Watford services.

I see I probably wasn't using the line till after that time so that's why I missed it.

 

[Bringback309s]

I think I'm also right in saying the Watford junction 313 always used platform 1 at Liverpool Street and always one unit? The video shows a two unit coming in to another platform and its well loaded, I don't remember the Watford services being that popular...

 

[W230]

Which is why the Navarino Road curve was constructed linking the N.L.L. with the Liverpool Street line at 'ackney Dahns.

A slight tangent but does this curve ever get any use now? I have a feeling this may have been asked before and the answer was a big fat no, certainly no passenger use at least. Cue some 'interesting' Overground route suggestions...

I think someone said they were used in WAGN days to get WA units over to the GN side for wheel turning at Hornsey (presumably via the Canonbury curve) but that since GN has been lumped in with TL the curve remains unused.

Nowadays any of our TL units needing a visit to Hornsey go a very long way round via Elephant & Castle, Brixton, Pouparts, Willesden Jct, Harringay and onto the ECML with a GBRf driver. Though the Canal tunnels are putting an end to this very soon.

 

[prod_pep]

I think I'm also right in saying the Watford junction 313 always used platform 1 at Liverpool Street and always one unit? The video shows a two unit coming in to another platform and its well loaded, I don't remember the Watford services being that popular...

Sometimes but not always I think. The last Liverpool Street - Watford Junction didn't use platform 1 as shown in this photo.

The Watford Junction services ceased in September 1992 and the 313s seen in the video are Hornsey based (and thus limited to 30 mph in DC mode).

 

[306024]

A slight tangent but does this curve ever get any use now? I have a feeling this may have been asked before and the answer was a big fat no, certainly no passenger use at least. Cue some 'interesting' Overground route suggestions...

I think someone said they were used in WAGN days to get WA units over to the GN side for wheel turning at Hornsey (presumably via the Canonbury curve) but that since GN has been lumped in with TL the curve remains unused.

The only booked workings are probably the various Network Rail measurement trains that go over the route simply because it is there.

Regular ECS used to run between Liverpool St and Hornsey Depot, either via Graham Road curve or Carpenters Road curve (near Stratford) until NXEA transferred the maintenance of West Anglia 315s and 317s to Ilford.