Class 314 Withdrawals

[D365]

There we go, found a use for the 314s - keep them after the 385s are all in service and electrify to EK, Barrhead and Kilmarnock with 314s for traction. Sorted

I imagine that many would argue in favour of the 365s

 

[hexagon789]

I imagine that many would argue in favour of the 365s

Why would you waste a 100 mph unit on a 50 mph branch though? (I'm not saying I'm against it but I'm not convinced it makes the most sense.)

 

[D365]

It’s not exactly like ScotRail will face a dire shortage of 100mph EMUs - Hitachi may well end up throwing a few in for free, and then obviously there will be a glutton of Class 321 units.

 

[hexagon789]

It’s not exactly like ScotRail will face a dire shortage of 100mph EMUs - Hitachi may well end up throwing a few in for free, and then obviously there will be a glutton of Class 321 units.

Well if the 314s absolutely must go, no question then I'd use 318s/320s to operate any potential EK electrified services.

I still maintain that the 314s have life in them yet.

 

[D365]

I still maintain that the 314s have life in them yet.

Do they? The other PEP-derived types are knackered.

 

[hexagon789]

Do they? The other PEP-derived types are knackered.

I think they do, they need an internal re-fit done but they are far from at the point where they break down every 5 minutes.

 

[gingertom]

I think they do, they need an internal re-fit done but they are far from at the point where they break down every 5 minutes.

could always cannibalise some 315s for spares if needs be.

 

[hexagon789]

could always cannibalise some 315s for spares if needs be.

Indeed, I believe bar an additional trailer car, they are essentially identical. Though I'm not sure whether the 315s also have different motor types within the class.

 

[prod_pep]

The 315s have different compressors as well but generally as you say they are essentially a 4 car version of the 314s.

Speaking of 315s, I definitely wouldn't call them 'knackered'. They still ride smoothly, are presentable and have been considerably more reliable than the 345s just lately. The 314s could go on too with an interior rehab but I must admit some are a bit creaky underfloor these days. Nothing that a bit of TLC wouldn't cure, mind.

 

[Highlandspring]

I think they do, they need an internal re-fit done but they are far from at the point where they break down every 5 minutes.

That may be your perception but it’s not my experience from managing the service. The 314s are knackered and failures in traffic happen daily.

 

[hexagon789]

That’s not my experience from managing the service. The 314s are knackered and failures in traffic happen daily.

When? I've never known a 314 to fail in traffic and I've used them for nearly 20 years, unless it's kept quiet somehow.

 

[hexagon789]

The 315s have different compressors as well but generally as you say they are essentially a 4 car version of the 314s.

Speaking of 315s, I definitely wouldn't call them 'knackered'. They still ride smoothly, are presentable and have been considerably more reliable than the 345s just lately. The 314s could go on too with an interior rehab but I must admit some are a bit creaky underfloor these days. Nothing that a bit of TLC wouldn't cure, mind.

314s ride much more smoothly than 380s, and the seats are more comfortable despite desperately needing re-upholstered

 

[Domh245]

Speaking of 315s, I definitely wouldn't call them 'knackered'. They still ride smoothly, are presentable and have been considerably more reliable than the 345s just lately. The 314s could go on too with an interior rehab but I must admit some are a bit creaky underfloor these days. Nothing that a bit of TLC wouldn't cure, mind.

It's almost as if bathtub curves are a thing - new stock is always unreliable at first whilst operators get used to it and manufacturers iron out faults, but they soon get up to speed. Similarly older stock hits a point where the reliability begins to plummet.

 

[ScotTrains]

The 314s are the only trains in Scotland still without any onboard toilets. It's a common complaint. I'm sure Scotrail will be keen to get rid of them.

 

[gingertom]

Why would you waste a 100 mph unit on a 50 mph branch though? (I'm not saying I'm against it but I'm not convinced it makes the most sense.)

385s are destined for the 40mph Cathcart Circle.

 

[hexagon789]

385s are destined for the 40mph Cathcart Circle.

True, I'll give you that , I think I must concede that point.

(Though there is 55 mph running out to Neilston).

But for existing traction being used elsewhere, I'd use the 100 mph 365s on routes where you could exploit that capability and use the 75 mph 314s on suburban routes.

Perhaps in the long run, ordering more 385s for any future electrifications would be best?

 

[gingertom]

True, I'll give you that , I think I must concede that point.

(Though there is 55 mph running out to Neilston).

But for existing traction being used elsewhere, I'd use the 100 mph 365s on routes where you could exploit that capability and use the 75 mph 314s on suburban routes.

Perhaps in the long run, ordering more 385s for any future electrifications would be best?

I know we like homogeneous fleets for maintenance and being able to go anywhere by any driver but is there a case for AT100 or similar metro-style people mover for lines like Cathcart Circle, EK, Barrhead and Maryhill? Nowhere on those lines for a 385 to stretch its legs. Would reduce operational flexibiity though so on balance another batch of 385s might be the way to go.

 

[Highlandspring]

When? I've never known a 314 to fail in traffic and I've used them for nearly 20 years, unless it's kept quiet somehow.

You don’t notice them because they generally get run off/stepped up at the Central either before or after operating a service, though failures on the main line are a very regular occurrence. So far this week I’ve personally dealt with two that failed out on the road - 201 with a door fault at Patterton and 213 at Crookston.

 

[hexagon789]

I know we like homogeneous fleets for maintenance and being able to go anywhere by any driver but is there a case for AT100 or similar metro-style people mover for lines like Cathcart Circle, EK, Barrhead and Maryhill? Nowhere on those lines for a 385 to stretch its legs. Would reduce operational flexibiity though so on balance another batch of 385s might be the way to go.

I would definitely say that having the whole Cathcart Circle system and any future electrification of the EK, Barrhead etc would benefit from sharing a fleet. I just think having 100 mph units on lines with speeds of less than 75 is a bit of waste.

That and scrapping the 314s

 

[hexagon789]

You don’t notice them because they generally get run off/stepped up at the Central either before or after operating a service, though failures on the main line are a very regular occurrence. So far this week I’ve personally dealt with two that failed out on the road - 201 with a door fault at Patterton and 213 at Crookston.

I don't doubt you, it's just considering how frequently I used the 314s until recently (still use them on occasion) and how often I'm in Glasgow Central I'm just surprised I've not noticed.

I'm still fond of the damn things though, you won't budge me on that!

 

[gsnedders]

I would definitely say that having the whole Cathcart Circle system and any future electrification of the EK, Barrhead etc would benefit from sharing a fleet. I just think having 100 mph units on lines with speeds of less than 75 is a bit of waste.

That and scrapping the 314s

Note even the AT100 supports 100mph top speeds!

 

[gingertom]

Note even the AT100 supports 100mph top speeds!

haven't looked recently. More 385s would simplify operations somewhat. Would it not be the case, if we needed an additional batch of EMUs after the option period for the 10 more 385s expires, we'd have to start a fresh procurement and go to out tender again? If that's the case we could end up getting something completely different. Could be good or bad an I'm sure the merits or otherwise will be discussed here!

 

[Carntyne]

The 314 fleet is on its last legs. They'll be sent away for scrap this year as soon as there are enough 385 units in service to release them. EK might not be electrified, it just needs a second platform to reduce platform occupation at Glasgow Central.

 

[43096]

The 315s have different compressors as well but generally as you say they are essentially a 4 car version of the 314s.

Speaking of 315s, I definitely wouldn't call them 'knackered'. They still ride smoothly, are presentable and have been considerably more reliable than the 345s just lately. The 314s could go on too with an interior rehab but I must admit some are a bit creaky underfloor these days. Nothing that a bit of TLC wouldn't cure, mind.

The trouble is, you might think they are not knackered, but behind the scenes more and more time and cost goes into maintaining them, parts become obsolete etc etc. They are at end of life and have to go.

 

[hexagon789]

Note even the AT100 supports 100mph top speeds!

I had assumed that that was what the 100 referred to.

 

[Southsider]

So the 200s can do?

 

[gsnedders]

So the 200s can do?

AT100 is up to 100mph, AT200 is up to 125mph, AT300 is up to 140mph, and AT400 is the proposed HS2 train (at least 220mph). All of these can be built to lower top-speeds depending on customer requirements, AFAIK.

 

[hexagon789]

AT100 is up to 100mph, AT200 is up to 125mph, AT300 is up to 140mph, and AT400 is the proposed HS2 train (at least 220mph). All of these can be built to lower top-speeds depending on customer requirements, AFAIK.

Very strange numbering system, mixed metric and imperial except the AT300 which makes no sense really.

 

[route101]

I'd argue in favour of electrification but I agree that perhaps more services are a more immediate priority.

There we go, found a use for the 314s - keep them after the 385s are all in service and electrify to EK, Barrhead and Kilmarnock with 314s for traction. Sorted

(The punters'll love that I'm sure! )

156 to 314 is a bit of a downgrade ! Pretty sure if EK was already wired we would have 314s. They are basic inside and look basic but nt a fa of the seating and alignment to windows.
As for EK , earlier train to get into Glasgow for 6 , rather than 7 , always thought thats a bit late . Later trains throughout the week including 2347 and 0018 departures .

 

[hexagon789]

156 to 314 is a bit of a downgrade ! Pretty sure if EK was already wired we would have 314s. They are basic inside and look basic but nt a fa of the seating and alignment to windows.
As for EK , earlier train to get into Glasgow for 6 , rather than 7 , always thought thats a bit late . Later trains throughout the week including 2347 and 0018 departures .

Quieter, and you have to run 3-cars minimum.

The earlier and later departures are welcome, definitely needed earlier trains into the Central.