Class 315 Withdrawals

700007

Member
Joined
6 May 2017
Messages
1,088
Location
Near a bunch of sheds that aren't 66s.
That time has come now where the 345s as of today are taking up 'full-day duties' in addition to the special trips they currently do. Unfortunately this means the timer has begun on our good friends the 315s - please note any withdrawals here of the 315s (this will include LO when the 710s kick in next year).

Worth noting that 315840+315848 have been in Ilford EMU for quite a while sitting in the same spot (I heard they were apparently involved in a minor accident but I'm not sure if this is true - I can't see any physical damage on them). Don't mean to speculate, but could these two be the first lot to go?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

sjoh

Member
Joined
7 Apr 2016
Messages
239
Location
London, E5 (ex E17!)
Any ideas which 'regular' services they are working? Additionally, with the short term availability of extra 315 sets, might this mean that LO no longer need to hire in 317s from GA?
 
Last edited:

rd749249

Member
Joined
15 Sep 2015
Messages
81
Worth noting that 315840+315848 have been in Ilford EMU for quite a while sitting in the same spot (I heard they were apparently involved in a minor accident but I'm not sure if this is true - I can't see any physical damage on them). Don't mean to speculate, but could these two be the first lot to go?
You are correct. These two units were involved in a minor shunting incident at Gidea Park and have now been permanently withdrawn. Call it a write-off if you will, or a good reason to introduce new 345 diagrams.
 

djpontrack

Member
Joined
18 Jan 2011
Messages
979
Location
Morecambe
Sad to see that the 315's going. I've had 315840 a couple times from Ilford to Stratford and luckily I managed to get 315848 earlier this year from Ilford to Seven Kings, not much mileage on that one but it all counts.
 

AC47461

Member
Joined
13 Feb 2017
Messages
140
Location
RAYLEIGH, ESSEX
So now stock in my area I remember being introduced as a kid is now being withdrawn. Man I'm starting to feel old!! :o
A bit long in the tooth now but they've done pretty well considering how intensively they've been used in recent years.
 

700007

Member
Joined
6 May 2017
Messages
1,088
Location
Near a bunch of sheds that aren't 66s.
I know these 315s inside and out so I will miss them definitely. Plenty of times 840 and 848 have picked me up to take me home early mornings through to the late nights. They're very good vehicles for their age!

I will be incredibly gutted when 841 and 845 (Herbie Woodward) are withdrawn - hope these two are amongst the last ones to go.
 

Triumph

Member
Joined
5 Dec 2011
Messages
369
Yeah - if anyone knows a way of working out which services are going to be 345 that'd be nice to know! :)
This is the diagram the 345 is working as from yesterday.

Ilford EMUD 07.00 3C19 173(1)\172(2) 5.93 5.93
Gidea Pk Mid Sdg 07.15 07+26 5C19 172(1)\173(2) 0.53 6.46
Gidea Park 07+28 07.29 2C19 172(1)\173(2) 13.53 19.99
Liverpool St 08.00 08.07 2C14 173(1)\172(2) 13.53 33.52
Gidea Park 08.35 08+37 5C14 173(1)\172(2) 0.53 34.05
Gidea Pk Mid Sdg 08+39 08+46 5C37 172(1)\173(2) 0.53 34.58
Gidea Park 08+48 08.49 2C37 172(1)\173(2) 13.53 48.11
Liverpool St 09.19 09.30 2W46 173(1)\172(2) 20.16 68.27
Shenfield 10.13 10.24 2W63 172(1)\173(2) 20.16 88.43
Liverpool St 11.07 11.20 2W68 173(1)\172(2) 20.16 108.59
Shenfield 12.03 12.14 2W85 172(1)\173(2) 20.16 128.75
Liverpool St 12.57 13.10 2W90 173(1)\172(2) 20.16 148.91
Shenfield 13.53 14.04 2W07 172(1)\173(2) 20.16 169.07
Liverpool St 14.47 15.00 2W12 173(1)\172(2) 20.16 189.23
Shenfield 15.43 15.54 2W29 172(1)\173(2) 20.16 209.39
Liverpool St 16.37 16.50 2C56 173(1)\172(2) 13.53 222.92
Gidea Park 17.18 17+20 5C56 173(1)\172(2) 0.53 223.45
Gidea Pk Mid Sdg 17+22 17+29 5C57 172(1)\173(2) 0.53 223.98
Gidea Park 17+31 17.32 2C57 172(1)\173(2) 13.53 237.51
Liverpool St 18.00 18.07 2W52 173(1)\172(2) 20.16 257.67
Shenfield 18.47 18.54 2W65 172(1)\173(2) 20.16 277.83
Liverpool St 19.37 19.52 2W78 173(1)\172(2) 20.16 297.99
Shenfield 20.35 20.44 2W87 172(1)\173(2) 20.16 318.15
Liverpool St 21.27 21.40 2W00 173(1)\172(2) 20.16 338.31
Shenfield 22.23 22+34 5V81 172(1)\173(2) 12.03 350.34
Ilford EMUD 23+04
Loaded 335.66
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,316
with units ordered for all currently proceeding electrification project, and over 200 slightly newer, 100mph capable, Mark 3 AC capable EMUs (and a load of Networkers too) also going off lease in the near future, there is no sane suggestion for future use beyond scrap.

It's a curiosity that the last of the PEP-based fleets to be built looks to be the first to be fully withdrawn
 

700007

Member
Joined
6 May 2017
Messages
1,088
Location
Near a bunch of sheds that aren't 66s.
Okay so I have gotten confirmation of all current 345 diagrams scheduled to run on a Monday to Friday, which is similar to the one Triumph posted. I'll write it out in the same format as on the Commonly Requested Diagrams thread too.

TfL Rail

Westbound (towards London Liverpool Street)
2W03 0512 SNF - 0555 LST (2)
2W21 0704 SNF - 0743 LST (2)
2C19 0728 GDP - 0800 LST (1)
2C37 0849 GDP - 0919 LST (1)
2W43 0842 SNF - 0922 LST (2)
2W63 1024 SNF - 1107 LST (1)
2W85 1214 SNF - 1257 LST (1)
2W91 1244 SNF - 1327 LST (3)
2W07 1404 SNF - 1447 LST (1)
2W13 1434 SNF - 1517 LST (3)
2W29 1554 SNF - 1637 LST (1)
2C57 1732 GDP - 1800 LST (1)
2W47 1724 SNF - 1803 LST (2)
2W65 1854 SNF - 1937 LST (1)
2W87 2044 SNF - 2127 LST (1)

Eastbound (towards Shenfield)
2W06 0610 LST - 0652 SNF (2)
2W26 0750 LST - 0833 SNF (2)
2C14 0807 LST - 0835 GDP (1)
2W46 0930 LST - 1013 SNF (1)
2W52 1000 LST - 1043 SNF (3)
2W68 1120 LST - 1203 SNF (1)
2W74 1150 LST - 1233 SNF (3)
2W90 1310 LST - 1353 SNF (1)
2W96 1340 LST - 1423 SNF (3)
2W12 1500 LST - 1543 SNF (1)
2W18 1530 LST - 1613 SNF (3)
2W30 1636 LST - 1717 SNF (2)
2C56 1650 LST - 1718 GDP (1)
2W52 1807 LST - 1847 SNF (1)
2C74 1810 LST - 1838 GDP (2)
2W78 1952 LST - 2035 SNF (1)
2W00 2140 LST - 2223 SNF (1)

Notes for stations:
LST - London Liverpool Street
GDP - Gidea Park
SNF - Shenfield

This post will be updated to show any further 345 diagrams when introduced. Information correct at time of posting, 16:53 on the 19th September 2017.

Please be aware the 'special' off-peak runs that ran throughout the summer of 2017 no longer runs.

Total amount of TfL Rail 345 units in scheduled service during off peaks: 1
Total amount of TfL Rail 315 units in scheduled service during off peaks: 20
 
Last edited:

samuelmorris

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
4,630
Location
Brentwood, Essex
It would be nice if LOROL used the displaced 315s to extend their services all to 8 car where possible.
This is presumably possible then? It struck me as odd that LO were not ordering any greater number of units than the number being withdrawn - perhaps they will simply have a reduced slack in the fleet?
 

Emblematic

Member
Joined
14 Aug 2013
Messages
659
This is presumably possible then? It struck me as odd that LO were not ordering any greater number of units than the number being withdrawn - perhaps they will simply have a reduced slack in the fleet?
They have options on a further 24 units, which gives them flexibility, so no need to commit to a larger fleet than immediately needed. I believe they can also call off the option as additional carriages for unit lengthening, if that's more suited to any of the routes. A larger fleet needs more stabling, depot space and so on.
 

NSEFAN

Established Member
Joined
17 Jun 2007
Messages
3,319
Location
Southampton
This is presumably possible then? It struck me as odd that LO were not ordering any greater number of units than the number being withdrawn - perhaps they will simply have a reduced slack in the fleet?
I don't see why not, the platforms must be long enough. I've often seen pairs of 317s running round on LOROL but have only ever seen 315s working solo. If the stock is there, it may as well be used.
 

306024

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2013
Messages
2,818
Location
East Anglia
I don't see why not, the platforms must be long enough. I've often seen pairs of 317s running round on LOROL but have only ever seen 315s working solo. If the stock is there, it may as well be used.
What about the additional electricity, variable track access and maintenance costs? These are big money to a TOC, you don't just run trains around for the fun of it ;)

Anyway 315s do run as pairs in the peaks, you've obviously not been around at that time. Also to run 8 car trains around all day actually wouldn't require any additional units, apart from perhaps extra maintenance spares due to the huge increase in unit mileage that would result. You would just use the ones that sit in Chingford sidings off peak.
 

13N

Member
Joined
10 Sep 2017
Messages
8
You are correct. These two units were involved in a minor shunting incident at Gidea Park and have now been permanently withdrawn. Call it a write-off if you will, or a good reason to introduce new 345 diagrams.
Currently being robbed for spares prior to being scrapped.
 

samuelmorris

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
4,630
Location
Brentwood, Essex
What about the additional electricity, variable track access and maintenance costs? These are big money to a TOC, you don't just run trains around for the fun of it ;)

Anyway 315s do run as pairs in the peaks, you've obviously not been around at that time. Also to run 8 car trains around all day actually wouldn't require any additional units, apart from perhaps extra maintenance spares due to the huge increase in unit mileage that would result. You would just use the ones that sit in Chingford sidings off peak.
That's my point, I know they can work 8-car services but they so often don't, it suggests they're short on units. Could not additional storage space have been made to expand this order, even slightly? That it's an option suggests any expansion of the fleet is contingent on something, but I wasn't aware of any plans. There are plenty of very heavily loaded peak services going via Bethnal Green that I witness passing by from the other side, and although I am less opposed to the high density layout of the 345s than many, even I can see that this will still not make the crowding problem disappear entirely, especially with no accommodation for usage growth in the years to come.


TT-ONR-NRN said:
Get rid of the 315s quickly, please!!! Sooner they're gone, the sooner I can forget they existed!
Be careful what you wish for - there are far worse units out there :P
 

700007

Member
Joined
6 May 2017
Messages
1,088
Location
Near a bunch of sheds that aren't 66s.
Get rid of the 315s quickly, please!!! Sooner they're gone, the sooner I can forget they existed!
315s any day. I was displeased to catch the very dull and uncomfortable 345s BOTH ways on my commute today - we need proper trains here!

I don't understand why one dislikes them - for their age they do a damn good job and bring character to the journey. Trains like this make traveling worthwhile.
 

chubs

Member
Joined
30 Oct 2012
Messages
598
The character of a clapped out bin that's ready for the scrap heap. Goodbye to them! Finally real trains are coming.
 

klewer

Member
Joined
21 May 2009
Messages
122
Get rid of the 315s quickly, please!!! Sooner they're gone, the sooner I can forget they existed!
They've done 35+ years of drama-free service and could probably keep going for many years to come. Great suburban unit and will be a shame to see them go.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
3,496
The only time I used them when briefly travelling into Liverpool Street in the late 80s, I was always happy if I was able to get a 305 instead, never been a big fan of the 315s, which seem terribly austere inside.

The Coastway 313s do show what can be done though
 

samuelmorris

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
4,630
Location
Brentwood, Essex
Very polarising isn't it? It will be sad to see the trains that have been my local service since before I was born finally disappear, which makes me feel old, but I do think those critical of their successors are a little bit stuck in the past. Board a train (or try to) at Stratford in the evening peak in mid-summer and endure the first 10 minutes of that journey until it empties out. Would you prefer to be sweating like a pig with no room to move whatsoever and have to exit the train every stop to let people off, or simply line up in the middle, close to others, but at least have room to breathe, and be air-conditioned to a reasonable temperature? It may not be luxury travel but the difference is night and day and plenty makes up for the other shortcomings and that's before the units have been lengthened, or the other benefits the Elizabeth line will bring, that they are enabling. I don't love or hate either class, but it's definitely the right time for the 315s to be replaced, even though the various refreshes they've had in the past decade have done a grand job of making them much more desirable than they were in their original guise.
 

Top