Class 317/7s

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Aictos

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Saw 317714 with 317719 work ECS from Connington South Junction to Ilford EMUD come though Stevenage earlier - I thought the majority of the 317/7s were stored?

Anyone know if this was just a trip to blow out the cobwebs?
 
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ChristopherJ

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Saw 317714 with 317719 work ECS from Connington South Junction to Ilford EMUD come though Stevenage earlier - I thought the majority of the 317/7s were stored?

Anyone know if this was just a trip to blow out the cobwebs?

The 317/7s are in warm storage - this was a proving trip to ensure they are still in serviceable condition.

Strange that they traveled that distance to Cambridgeshire, previously they have been let off their leashes for just a quick sprint to Stratford and back. Is there a certain mileage stored vehicles have to complete to remain operational?
 
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WatcherZero

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Is it the 317/7's which are will have four of having an experimental 20 year life extension with Angel before going back to their relased with Angel close to a deal to lease the remainder of them to Northern and possibly to refurbish and lease more in replacement/addition to Thameslink 319's when the GA/FCC lease is up?
 
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Is it the 317/7's which are will have four of having an experimental 20 year life extension with Angel before going back to their relased with Angel close to a deal to lease the remainder of them to Northern and possibly to refurbish and lease more in replacement/addition to Thameslink 319's when the GA/FCC lease is up?

It's the 317/7's that are going to trial it (317722 is the test unit I believe- which is still at Ilford). I believe the other 317's will see a similar overhaul if it's successful.
 

WatcherZero

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Mmm, article said two would be in Metro style seating layout and two in traditional seating so passengers could compare but I guess it could have been refering to carriages rather than units. It was ambigious.
 

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Mmm, article said two would be in Metro style seating layout and two in traditional seating so passengers could compare but I guess it could have been refering to carriages rather than units. It was ambigious.

Ooh wow, this sounds great. Good on angel trains for giving old rolling stock a new lease of life. Can I have a link to this article please, as this is the first I have heard of it.

Adam :)
 

WatcherZero

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Current issue of Rail short news article with a feature article coming next issue.

From memory besides heavily refurbing interior to meet DDA requirements the main modifications in the prototype to life extend 20 years were replacing DC motors with AC motors (including bogie modifications), removing 3rd rail gear and voltage converters and adding regenerative braking.
 

aformeruser

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so passengers could compare

They actually want passengers opinions on seating layouts to decide which one is best? That must be a first. I'll bet 2+2 seating on winning!

20 year life extension sounds a bit optimistic for 1981 builds that will probably be 33 years old by the time the trial starts. Maybe 10 years is more realistic.
 
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jopsuk

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20 years is more realistic if it is actually 1987-onwards 319s, and the reference to 3rd rail equipment (plus they're actually confirmed for up north whereas I'm pretty sure the 317/7s remains a rumour) makes me think wires have got crossed.
 

Failed Unit

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They actually want passengers opinions on seating layouts to decide which one is best? That must be a first. I'll bet 2+2 seating on winning!

They have done it before the 150/0 had several types of seating installed as did Chiltern trains and Virgin trailed some seats in mk3s pre pendo.

What we will never know is if they take any notice of the feedback.

For example the 150/1 had the BR standard outer suburban seats which were also installed in the 317s and 318s at the time. The 150/2 had the ashbournes which appeared in the 319s. I suspect it was bulk orders rather than passenger feedback that was the influence.

As for Virgin, I never encountered the mk3s so I don't know which one was the best. TOCs can say what they like we can't really prove otherwise.

But as you have stated it is already known passengers prefer 2+2 so if 2+3 appears I would be interested to know what questions they asked to ensure they got the correct answer, :lol:
 

aformeruser

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20 years is more realistic if it is actually 1987-onwards 319s, and the reference to 3rd rail equipment (plus they're actually confirmed for up north whereas I'm pretty sure the 317/7s remains a rumour) makes me think wires have got crossed.

There aren't any 319s available to do a trial refurbishment on though. Unless FCC take on the 317/7s and release some of the 319/2s (which have lower density seating like the 317/7s.)

The 319s aren't actually confirmed for 'up north' under the Coalition's revised plan. They simply say FCC will return the 319s to the leasing company and that there will be spare EMUs available for newly electrified routes without a new order. That leaves the door open for the 319s to go elsewhere and other units like the 317s or 321s to go to Northern, not to say it will happen but the Coalition have left that door open.
 

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Is it too sensiable for the 317s to go to "Great Northern" and Northern to have the 321s that are currently on "Great Northern". More of common fleets for both operators?
 

aformeruser

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Is it too sensiable for the 317s to go to "Great Northern" and Northern to have the 321s that are currently on "Great Northern". More of common fleets for both operators?

Even though Northern have 321s that would not result in common fleets in practice even though it would on paper.

There are no Manchester based crews who sign 321s and to send the 321s to Neville Hill for maintenance with the other Northern 321s would require a Manchester-Preston-Edinburgh-Newcastle-York-Leeds trip!

This would change after North TPE electrification but that's quite a few years off.
 
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Failed Unit

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Even though Northern have 321s that would not result in common fleets in practice even though it would on paper.

There are no Manchester based crews who sign 321s and to send the 321s to Neville Hill for maintenance with the other Northern 321s would require a Manchester-Preston-Edinburgh-Newcastle-York-Leeds trip!

This would change after North TPE electrification but that's quite a few years off.

I see your point, but it probably would still be a bit better in the sense of common training programmes, spares etc. worse case they could drag the unit across the pennies. But drivers in Manchester could do training in Leeds and vice versa.

I guess however as you say it won't make that much difference as I suspect such savings will be small.
 

317666

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I remember hearing a year or so ago that a pair of 317/6s were to be fitted with 379-style interiors as a trial, and if successful the whole subclass were to be so treated. I'm certainly glad that nothing seems to have come of this! It'll be interesting to see just how long the 317s last, the oldest units made it to a respectable 30 years old last year.
 

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Current issue of Rail short news article with a feature article coming next issue.

From memory besides heavily refurbing interior to meet DDA requirements the main modifications in the prototype to life extend 20 years were replacing DC motors with AC motors (including bogie modifications), removing 3rd rail gear and voltage converters and adding regenerative braking.

The article says the DC motors and Thyristors will be removed and replaced with AC motors and 3 phase converters.

Mmm, article said two would be in Metro style seating layout and two in traditional seating so passengers could compare but I guess it could have been refering to carriages rather than units. It was ambigious.

Article said "Two of the vehicles will be fitted with Metro-style interiors........" how is that ambiguous?

It also says the new interiors will be similar to those now in the SWT class 455s.

The idea seems to be to leave the transformer and bogies alone as far as possible and bring the electrical traction equipment up to date. The interesting thing is fitting regen braking which normally would need more motored axles to be effective.
 

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John55

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SprinterMan

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I remember hearing a year or so ago that a pair of 317/6s were to be fitted with 379-style interiors as a trial, and if successful the whole subclass were to be so treated. I'm certainly glad that nothing seems to have come of this! It'll be interesting to see just how long the 317s last, the oldest units made it to a respectable 30 years old last year.

I think there are 5 (?) 317/6s with 379 seat covers, but I don't think the rest are being done.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7015215451/in/photostream

Adam :D
 

317666

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I believe there's three /6s with those seat covers - 653, 655 and 658. What I heard was that there were plans to strip the interior completely and fit them new seats like what the 379s have, although this doesn't seem to have happened, it may have just been a rumour.

One thing with the 317s is that, like many older EMUs, there is a pole at the pantograph end of the PMS, and there is always a row of 3 seats either side of it, even if the rest of the train has 2+2 seating, as otherwise it would just obstruct the gangway. If a PMS is being modified, I wonder whether they'll do the same or find some other way around it.
 

SprinterMan

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I believe there's three /6s with those seat covers - 653, 655 and 658. What I heard was that there were plans to strip the interior completely and fit them new seats like what the 379s have, although this doesn't seem to have happened, it may have just been a rumour.

One thing with the 317s is that, like many older EMUs, there is a pole at the pantograph end of the PMS, and there is always a row of 3 seats either side of it, even if the rest of the train has 2+2 seating, as otherwise it would just obstruct the gangway. If a PMS is being modified, I wonder whether they'll do the same or find some other way around it.

The quote in the picture says 5 have this interior, but I'm not sure if it's right or not.

Adam :D
 

Class377/5

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There aren't any 319s available to do a trial refurbishment on though. Unless FCC take on the 317/7s and release some of the 319/2s (which have lower density seating like the 317/7s.)

The 319s aren't actually confirmed for 'up north' under the Coalition's revised plan. They simply say FCC will return the 319s to the leasing company and that there will be spare EMUs available for newly electrified routes without a new order. That leaves the door open for the 319s to go elsewhere and other units like the 317s or 321s to go to Northern, not to say it will happen but the Coalition have left that door open.

I'm not sure I want to be working when they send a 317 into the Thameslink Core and it runs out of overheads!

FCC have only 5 spare 319's during peak and some are in depot getting work on so there's no chance of one being released.
 
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