Class 319 Cab End Doors

[DGH 1]

Does anyone know why the 319's have the door on the front of the cabs?

 

[hexagon789]

Does anyone know why the 319's have the door on the front of the cabs?

Evacuation in tunnels.

 

[DGH 1]

Thank's for that superfast info, i've often wondered as it's not like a corridor connection on other trains. Do you know why they are the only ones so fitted.

 

[D365]

Thank's for that superfast info, i've often wondered as it's not like a corridor connection on other trains. Do you know why they are the only ones so fitted.

They're certainly not the only. The PEP-derived units (Class 313-315 and 507/508) are all fitted with cab end doors.

These doors are for single bore tunnels, such as on the lines to Moorgate, both the former City Widened Lines and Northern City. Note that the Class 717s (Class 313 replacement) are also fitted with cab end doors.

 

[jopsuk]

Specifically, it was a measure that was required by regulations at the time for operation along the widened lines into Moorgate (high level), which had tight tunnels with no possibility of evacuating using the doors on the side. Nevermind that not long before they came into operation along there some of the stock that worked (diesel hauled!) services in was I belive non-corridor compartment stock; regulations change. The 317s were OK as they had inter-unit gangways; it was decided not to have those on the 319s for some reason but evacuation doors were provided anyway.

Similarly the 313s, built for the route to Moorgate low level.

 

[hexagon789]

Thank's for that superfast info, i've often wondered as it's not like a corridor connection on other trains. Do you know why they are the only ones so fitted.

Some other classes have similar - 313/314 for example. It's to do with regulations for single bore (one train width) tunnels and evacuation in emergency, there isn't room to exit from the side of the train so instead it's via the cab end doors

 

[DGH 1]

Thanks for all that great information, i 'm embarrassed to say i've never noticed the front door on any of those other classes mentioned, no doubt it will be staring me in the face when I look at them from now on, thank you all again.

 

[DGH 1]

With these doors being fitted for evacuation, are the units fitted with a special ladder for passengers to get down from the train?, i'm just wondering as the coupling is right below the door..

 

[D365]

With these doors being fitted for evacuation, are the units fitted with a special ladder for passengers to get down from the train?, i'm just wondering as the coupling is right below the door..

Not sure about the older units, but the Class 717 is shown in this video to have a ladder built into the door.

 

[DGH 1]

That's an amazing video clip, i wouldn't like to be standing in front of that when it opens up, thank you.

 

[L401CJF]

With these doors being fitted for evacuation, are the units fitted with a special ladder for passengers to get down from the train?, i'm just wondering as the coupling is right below the door..

Well worth a watch, for evacuation skip to 12:35 in this training video:

 

[DGH 1]

Hi there, i've thoroughly enjoyed watching the video clip, i'm a lot wiser now and i never realised how much was involved in train evacuation procedures.
I'll never look at the front door on a train the same ever again, thank you.

 

[Taunton]

That's all very well for getting out of the front/rear of the train. How do you get between units without gangways (313; 319) working in multiple to get there?

I believe the whole single line tunnel evacuation concern started from a breakdown (might have been a derailment) of a 2-HAP (Class 416) in the narrow tunnels between Folkestone and Dover, where they were initially common from the 1960s electrification. They were then banned from this section. Like most such tunnels, steam non corridor stock had used them for the previous 100-odd years without much concern.

 

[Neptune]

All London Underground and Glasgow Subway stock is so fitted for the same purpose too.

 

[DGH 1]

That's an interesting point you raise, could they use a special walkway between the two units?. And what about disabled passengers with all these new regulations coming into force, How is that going to work?

 

[L401CJF]

That's all very well for getting out of the front/rear of the train. How do you get between units without gangways (313; 319) working in multiple to get there?

I believe the whole single line tunnel evacuation concern started from a breakdown (might have been a derailment) of a 2-HAP (Class 416) in the narrow tunnels between Folkestone and Dover, where they were initially common from the 1960s electrification. They were then banned from this section. Like most such tunnels, steam non corridor stock had used them for the previous 100-odd years without much concern.

If you open the exit doors between the 2 units, it's not a huge step between the 2, just mind the gap. There's certainly bigger steps getting on the train at some of our stations than there is walking between 2 unis with no gangway!

 

[Mikey C]

The 700s don't have this evacuation door, I assume it's because they don't go to Moorgate any more?

 

[causton]

The 700s don't have this evacuation door, I assume it's because they don't go to Moorgate any more?

They never did (and due to the lack of door, probably never will) go through any single bore narrow tunnels. All the tunnels they travel through, you can evacuate through the side doors.

 

[swt_passenger]

The 700s don't have this evacuation door, I assume it's because they don't go to Moorgate any more?

That’s correct. It was only the section between Farringdon and Moorgate that needed end doors for evacuation, it didn’t apply to what is now the main or only Thameslink route.

Although when 700s were yet to be introduced quite a few posters didn’t seem to believe that the problem didn’t apply any longer...

 

[Surreytraveller]

The 700s don't have this evacuation door, I assume it's because they don't go to Moorgate any more?

The line was closed about ten years ago, before the 700s were built so the platforms at Farringdon could be extended

 

[Surreytraveller]

With these doors being fitted for evacuation, are the units fitted with a special ladder for passengers to get down from the train?, i'm just wondering as the coupling is right below the door..

All trains have a ladder on board to assist evacuation, whether that's from the cab end doors, or the normal side doors

 

[DGH 1]

I've seen the ladders on board trains for normal side door evacuation, but i never realised until I posted this thread that some trains have them for front door evacuation as well.

 

[simple simon]

Although when 700s were yet to be introduced quite a few posters didn’t seem to believe that the problem didn’t apply any longer...

The London Overground 710s are the same, yet when they were still in the testing stage I saw one showing New Cross as its destination - the issue being that as it does not have a front exit it would not be allowed to carry passengers through the East London Line Brunel tunnel under the Thames....

As an aside, this emergency evacuation regulation caused the Metropolitan Railway to cancel a planned deep level tube link which it wanted to use to relieve congestion on the twin track route between Finchley Road and Baker Street stations. This was because the Met wanted to use slam door trains with compartment seating through the new tunnels.
Had the Met's plans come to fruition then what became the Bakerloo line (nowadays Jubilee line) route to Finchley Road would not have been built, the Stanmore branch would likely have remained as a Metropolitan service and the extra track capacity would created the much needed capacity to run sufficient extra trains to cope with passenger traffic gained after the Stanmore branch was extended St Albans.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

How did the Javelins get dispensation to run through the Shakespeare tunnels?

 

[superjohn]

How did the Javelins get dispensation to run through the Shakespeare tunnels?

Still the same answers as when you asked in 2014
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/shakespeare-tunnel-folkestone.104007/

 

[bengley]

378s also have a front evac door

 

[NoMorePacers]

503s had them as well.

 

[delt1c]

503s had them as well.

503’s were fitted later. As built they didn’t have end doors

 

[plugwash]

All trains have a ladder on board to assist evacuation, whether that's from the cab end doors, or the normal side doors

As far as I can tell, most trains have what would be described as a fairly ordinary wooden ladder.

The video posted earlier in this thread of a 313 showed a special evacuation "ladder" for the end door, which hooks in to the train and provides a set of large flat steps at a much shallower angle.

 

[AM9]

The London Overground 710s are the same, yet when they were still in the testing stage I saw one showing New Cross as its destination - the issue being that as it does not have a front exit it would not be allowed to carry passengers through the East London Line Brunel tunnel under the Thames. ...

The Crossrail class 345s run in single bore tunnels, however, those tunnels are much larger and have a continuous catwalk along one side for evacuation via the main passenger doors. I presume that this has truly level boarding for wheelchair access.