Class 321/322’s compatibility

Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

D365

Established Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
7,207
Northern 321/322’s are compatible with the rest of 321 fleet.

In fact I remember seeing a 322 coupled to a 317/6 in WAGN days.
That was WAGN days, the 321/9s and 322s have since undergone modification (not least a different PIS system, as far as I can tell) which differentiates them from the Greater Anglia fleet.
 

NoMorePacers

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2016
Messages
985
Location
Hull
No 321s have TrainFX to my knowledge. They have a much, much higher quality system instead, and with PIS announcements that don't sound like they're being played through speakers from Poundland.
 
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
459
Location
West Yorkshire
321/9 and 322 have the same system which is thankfully not TrainFX
That seems like a hardware issue (i.e. the speakers) and not a software issue as to the best of my knowledge the new CAFs and Sprinters use the same system and there’s a stark contrast.

Also it seems like the Dusty Bin announcements haven’t been changed since Kirkstall Forge was added as they don’t feature the bloke or the ‘see it, say it, sorted’ message which justifies how they use a different operating system (probably the same one they had prior to the 2015 refurbishment).

Another way you can tell the Northern Dusty Bins don’t have Train FX is the fact that the announcements work 99% of the time :lol:.
 
Last edited:

skyhigh

Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
528
That seems like a hardware issue (i.e. the speakers) and not a software issue as to the best of my knowledge the new CAFs and Sprinters use the same system and there’s a stark contrast.

Also it seems like the Dusty Bin announcements haven’t been changed since Kirkstall Forge was added as they don’t feature the bloke or the ‘see it, say it, sorted’ message which justifies how they use a different operating system (probably the same one they had prior to the 2015 refurbishment).

Another way you can tell the Northern Dusty Bins don’t have Train FX is the fact that the announcements work 99% of the time :lol:.
195/331 don't have TrainFX either. It's just on 150, 155, 156 and 158s.
 

NoMorePacers

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2016
Messages
985
Location
Hull
Fair point- I suspect 323s as well, but I don't sign either of those.
I observed on a refurbished unit that 323s are being fitted with TrainFX as they receive PRM mods as well - but then again any knowledge I have is purely from what is visible to the passenger.
 

Energy

Member
Joined
29 Dec 2018
Messages
1,074
That seems like a hardware issue (i.e. the speakers) and not a software issue as to the best of my knowledge the new CAFs and Sprinters use the same system and there’s a stark contrast.
The sprinters use a system from TrainFX, the CAFs use a system from Televic rail.
 

Wivenswold

Established Member
Joined
24 Jul 2012
Messages
1,165
Location
Essex
The fleet of Class 322s briefly joined "One" in May 2004 to allow the withdrawal of the last Class 312 diagram. They ran in 8 and 12 car consists with Class 321s on a daily basis without issue.
At the time the 321s had just been refurbished, the 322s by comparison were in a terrible state.
 

Neptune

Member
Joined
29 May 2018
Messages
439
Location
West Yorkshire
The 322’s has to be carefully diagrammed as they had 2+2 seating throughout which was a huge drop in seating capacity compared to the 321’s. I remember when we briefly had 322484 working out of Leeds to allow for 321/9 refurbishment around 2004. It was originally booked onto any 321 diagram but was found to be totally inadequate on the diagram that included the 1720 Leeds - Skipton. It was therefore given its own self-contained diagram doing Leeds - Doncaster only (even hours of Leeds, odd hours off Donny if I remember rightly).

321347 was sent in its place from FGE but couldn’t operate up here due to its lack of NRN (it had CSR only). It was soon replaced by Silverlink 321407 and later 321423 until the final 321/9 returned from refurb.

The 322’s were refurbished by First Scotrail into a similar internal layout to the 321/9’s and eventually ended up at Northern when they were replaced by 380’s.
 

MatthewRead

On Moderation
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
1,421
The 322’s has to be carefully diagrammed as they had 2+2 seating throughout which was a huge drop in seating capacity compared to the 321’s. I remember when we briefly had 322484 working out of Leeds to allow for 321/9 refurbishment around 2004. It was originally booked onto any 321 diagram but was found to be totally inadequate on the diagram that included the 1720 Leeds - Skipton. It was therefore given its own self-contained diagram doing Leeds - Doncaster only (even hours of Leeds, odd hours off Donny if I remember rightly).

321347 was sent in its place from FGE but couldn’t operate up here due to its lack of NRN (it had CSR only). It was soon replaced by Silverlink 321407 and later 321423 until the final 321/9 returned from refurb.

The 322’s were refurbished by First Scotrail into a similar internal layout to the 321/9’s and eventually ended up at Northern when they were replaced by 380’s.
I thought the 321/9's were refurbished between 2005-06 same time as the 322's.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
11,344
Location
Another planet...
I thought the 321/9's were refurbished between 2005-06 same time as the 322's.
They've had varying degrees of redecoration/refresh/PRM upgrades periodically over the years. When the 322s first transferred in they still had declassified first class sections in for a few months, but they were barely worth seeking out as the seat cushions had basically collapsed.
 

Neptune

Member
Joined
29 May 2018
Messages
439
Location
West Yorkshire
I thought the 321/9's were refurbished between 2005-06 same time as the 322's.
It could well have been 2005. They were some of the first units refurbished by the Serco version of Northern.


They've had varying degrees of redecoration/refresh/PRM upgrades periodically over the years. When the 322s first transferred in they still had declassified first class sections in for a few months, but they were barely worth seeking out as the seat cushions had basically collapsed.
The 322’s had large cycle areas at one end for use on Scotrail. This area was removed and replaced by old first class seats (presumably the ones taken out of the 322’s by Scotrail) upon transfer to Northern. These seats were replaced by standard Ashbourne seats displaced by the disabled accessible toilet. Some of these seats were also used in the area where the old 2nd standard toilet was removed.
 

zn1

Member
Joined
3 Sep 2011
Messages
417
EMU CLASSES 313-322 are all electrically compatiable and are able to interjoin between classes. it has not been unusual in the past during Q TRIP Movements between workshops and depots to have 313-317-319,(drop off the 313 at ZN1) to pick a 315-317-319, then off to Ilford to drop off the 315, pick up another 319, so formation became 317-319-319. a quick run up the NLL to HE to tip the 317 and back to SU to deliver the overhauled 319s..during early 1990s there was only a few DRivers who signed all classes and routes on the Southern, LM and the Eastern. Normally a few Stratford, ilford and BY Men did the jobs...was a nice easy saturday JOB, no stops
 

D365

Established Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
7,207
EMU CLASSES 313-322 are all electrically compatiable and are able to interjoin between classes. it has not been unusual in the past during Q TRIP Movements between workshops and depots to have 313-317-319,(drop off the 313 at ZN1) to pick a 315-317-319, then off to Ilford to drop off the 315, pick up another 319, so formation became 317-319-319. a quick run up the NLL to HE to tip the 317 and back to SU to deliver the overhauled 319s..during early 1990s there was only a few DRivers who signed all classes and routes on the Southern, LM and the Eastern. Normally a few Stratford, ilford and BY Men did the jobs...was a nice easy saturday JOB, no stops
You’re going to have to explain a number of those abbreviations... Q trip, ZN1, NLL, HE, SU.
 

43096

Established Member
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
6,861
You’re going to have to explain a number of those abbreviations... Q trip, ZN1, NLL, HE, SU.
Q trip - "trip" working that runs as required (known as a Q path)
ZN1 - presume Wolverton Works
NLL - North London Line
HE - Hornsey depot
SU - Selhurst depot
 

snookertam

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2018
Messages
428
Every EMU from 313 through 323 are compatible with each other. Maybe not on the PA front, but they can couple together to form trains.
Yes. Has been done by ScotRail for years where Class 314s attached to 318s, 320s and 322s to work ECS movements. They were never permitted in passenger service due to differences in door controls, but technically nothing stopped them working in multiple.

Another example is the class 321s being so readily converted to class 320s. ScotRail near enough allocate class 318s and 320s interchangeably and have done for years, although each class has it's own diagrams.
 

D365

Established Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
7,207
Yes. Has been done by ScotRail for years where Class 314s attached to 318s, 320s and 322s to work ECS movements. They were never permitted in passenger service due to differences in door controls, but technically nothing stopped them working in multiple.
That’s the point I’ve tried to make, that the Mk3 and PEP-derived EMUs can’t be guaranteed to be suitable for inter-class coupling in passenger service.
 

Scotrail84

Established Member
Joined
5 Jul 2010
Messages
2,145
The 322’s has to be carefully diagrammed as they had 2+2 seating throughout which was a huge drop in seating capacity compared to the 321’s. I remember when we briefly had 322484 working out of Leeds to allow for 321/9 refurbishment around 2004. It was originally booked onto any 321 diagram but was found to be totally inadequate on the diagram that included the 1720 Leeds - Skipton. It was therefore given its own self-contained diagram doing Leeds - Doncaster only (even hours of Leeds, odd hours off Donny if I remember rightly).

321347 was sent in its place from FGE but couldn’t operate up here due to its lack of NRN (it had CSR only). It was soon replaced by Silverlink 321407 and later 321423 until the final 321/9 returned from refurb.

The 322’s were refurbished by First Scotrail into a similar internal layout to the 321/9’s and eventually ended up at Northern when they were replaced by 380’s.

They never used to at ScotRail, the 322s used to have 2+3 seating.
 

Top