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Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Metal_gee_man, 5 Sep 2019.
Full marks, ChiefPlanner, you don't disappoint.
Doesn’t an alert sound if a door hasn’t closed?
I have it too. The scene with the rubber stamps is the best - even with the Czechoslovakian steam locos.
I would imagine that any alerts are on the same circuit as the interlock - so if one is obtained (correctly or otherwise) then no alert will sound, and if the interlock is bypassed (for whatever reason) any alert sound will also be suppressed.
Similarly I would expect the same to be true of any exterior lights.
The image on the RAIB website shows that it was one leaf of a double door, not in a vestibule (doors on a 321 are at ⅓ and ⅔ of the car). So there would be no suddenly finding yourself next to an open door in this case. As someone who has less that perfect balance, I'm holding on to something when I'm walking through a moving train even when there are no doors, open or otherwise, in the vicinity.
I spent years standing next to open doors on trains and never came close to falling off, got paid to do it as well.
Great job being a guard on the northern line.
Being more serious if you think about how many passengers you have seen falling against closed doors, (none in my case), then take into consideration that people would know that the door was open and take more care, you realise how little risk there was in this case.
I'm going to wager that this being a contra-peak train, there probably weren't many folk about to see the issue earlier in the journey!
I've had a few incidents abroad like this. Most recently aboard a trailer carriage attached to a "Bzmot" railcar in Hungary. When we departed the first station, the door didn't close.
When the conductor swapped into our carriage about four stations down, he rolled his eyes, leaned out and slammed it shut before having words with the driver.
Turns out that the units weren't talking to each other so the driver gave the coupler a whack and off we went, doors closed successfully.
More worryingly I caught a train driver in Portugal playing games on his phone while we were moving, sure enough a few stops down the line he forgot to close the doors and we hit 30mph or so before he pressed the close button!
There is no audible alarm in the cab to warn if a door is open on a 321. Also there is no alarm in the cab to warn if a safety system is isolated. There is on a 315/317 though.
And the side issue of the Station Master , who had his settee "misused" - some interesting themes in this fine film.
If it's the same door assy as a Class 320 - the traction & door interlock circuits use the same microswitch, which is only fitted to one leaf of the door. Both doors are (or should be) connected via rubber pulley belt in the door header gear. In other words if one door leaf (the side away from the microswitch) becomes detached from the pulley - the TIS/DI system won't know.
Having said that, the microswitches have been known to fail in the "on" position. In this (hopefully) rare situation, the doors could be wide open and the switch would say "doors closed". The door interlock system on the Class 320 is a bit "BR Basic"...(excluding the LHS/RHS door energise relays in the coaches), there are two relays in the cab ends - one for traction and one for door interlock. That's the "clunk" that can be heard when the doors shut, again relays can fail in the "energised" position, so bypassing any system system and the crew would be unaware.
What, as you indicate, could possibly go wrong with that arrangement?! Idiots.
The train could have had 12 carriages. If the open door was in the front 4 carriages, the carriage would have been almost empty. From what I have seen at Liverpool Street in the morning. Anyone looking for a seat will have no need to walk more than the rear four carriages. At the intermediate stations the front carriages do not stop near entrances and footbridges. Also the Schools and Colleges were on holiday.
But then how many incidents of this kind have there been ?
It does look a bit like an accident waiting to happen as all you do it for it to happen is not correctly torque up the two hangar bracket bolts which I think also retain the belt on the second door leaf
I find it astounding that the opinion of many posters is that "it's fine".
Is the general consensus that it's fine for trains in this same situation, to travel with a set of doors open?
And yet I read squabbles about yellow fronts...
It's a fair point - being slightly cynical, yellow fronts are primarily for the benefit of railway staff. This issue only really affects the paying punters.
So do guards no longer get out on to platforms and look along the train to check the doors are closed ?
There are no guards. It’s a driver only route.
And even if there was a guard, the open door was on the non-platform side so they wouldn't have noticed it.
How visible are recessed pocket sliding doors at the far end of a long train anyway?
Virtually invisible. On a lot of stock, you’d physically have to walk down and check each door at the end of the formation. It’s why plug doors are so much safer to dispatch with, albeit usually more complex to fix if they go wrong.
RAIB safety digest now available
Looks like OpsWeb wins today’s prize!
Jointly with @Erniescooper
I'm trying to work out exactly which classes they are referring to here - classes 150, 317-322, 455, and 456 make for only 9 classes. If you include the similarly doored PEPs (313-5, 507, 508) then the number is 14. Simple case of miscounting?
I guess they mean 13 classes (in addition to the 321s), which would make 14 in total.
From the report in the media I read a number of other units were found to have the same fault and needed remedial action apparently all since some refurbishment took place...