Class 345 progress

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by samuelmorris, 2 Sep 2015.

  1. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    A new letter from Mark Wild to the London Assembly Transport committee has been published on the TfL web site today. It has some news on the software testing in the COS and vague plans for the upgrade to 9 car trains.

    and...

    Despite a request from the Acting chair of the London Assembly Transport Committee and an assurance from Tony Meggs there is still no sign of the publication of the recent reports from Jacobs, the Crossrail Project Representative. The Jacobs reports tend to be more informative and the most recent covers up to mid October. A lot has happened since then.
     
  2. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    More testing is planned this weekend. From the TfL Weekend Travel Information email.
     
  3. TFN

    TFN Member

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    The TfL Rail train I took from Ealing today actually made automatic announcements regarding the closure on 1st and 16th March. It even said use the Central and District Lines from Ealing Broadway.

    I thought it was weird that they would close Paddington to Ealing but now that it's for Crossrail testing it makes sense.

    Will they just be closing the relief lines and keep the main lines open to Paddington?
     
  4. popeter45

    popeter45 Member

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    i believe so as have a intercity trip booked for Sunday and its saying no changes
     
  5. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    If they did then they would be able to run TfL services using the standard Sunday timetable
     
  6. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    The Hayes and Harlington terminator is dependent on the reliefs being open
     
  7. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    Whilst that is true, this Sunday no trains from Paddington between 0933 and 2029 call at any station east of Slough and TfL Rail doesn't get to Paddington until 2300.

    TfL Rail terminate at Ealing Broadway from Reading / Heathrow between these times. The Didcot to Paddington stopper is fast from Slough to Paddington.

    Possession appears to close the relief line east of Ealing Broadway with access to Paddington for GWR restricted to lines 1 to 3.

    This allows access for Crossrail trains to the Royal Oak Portal from Old Oak Depot and Acton Main Line to run to Bond Street as seen here.

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/PDX/2020-03-01/0930-2345?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
     
    Last edited: 28 Feb 2020
  8. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    That is an interesting timetable. Looks like they are running two trains following each other over the transition between CBTC and TPWS. This is good news.
     
  9. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    And even better news if it goes to plan during testing!
     
  10. FlippyFF

    FlippyFF Member

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    They were doing this the previous weekend too but what puzzled me was that the timetable (on RTT) showed them terminating at the eastbound platform at Bond Street and the return starting from the westbound platform. Isn't the nearest crossover to the east of Tottenham Court Road? If so, why weren't they shown as running to/from there?

    TIA

    Simon
     
  11. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    No idea. I wonder if anyone else knows.
     
  12. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Possibly they are being manually signalled east of Bond Street to do the turnback?
     
  13. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    According to RTT all the test trains were cancelled.except one.
     
  14. mic505

    mic505 Member

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    Any further updates regarding the 345's operating to Heathrow? Will they operate 2tph initially (replacing the Hayes & Harlington and T2/T3 to T4 shuttles) or 4tph Paddington to T4, entirely?
     
  15. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    Depends if they come in before the may timetable change or not the plan is 4tph after the may timetable change however you may see 2tph before then to terminal 4
     
  16. mic505

    mic505 Member

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    According to Crossrail via Wikipedia 'early 2020' is the next phase for 345's running to Heathrow. All I wanted to know in detail is whether its 4tph Paddington-Heathrow T4 (replacing the 360's) or just 2tph, alongside the 360's. Hence current information is vague lol.
     
  17. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    May on real time trains has 4 tph going to Heathrow. If they introduce the 345s before then to Heathrow it's likely to be 2tph until may.
     
  18. mic505

    mic505 Member

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    Ok. It's what i assumed, but i wanted a comprehensive answer.
     
  19. Trailfinder

    Trailfinder Member

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    For my sins I monitored Sunday’s testing on Open Train Times. At the same time it was a good opportunity to check for faults in the OTT Paddington map regarding the Crossrail part of the map; in which case I would report to OTT.

    In previous Sunday testing, 2/3 units had shuttled between the Crossrail Depot Lines and the Crossrail Tunnel Lines (Eastbound, Westbound and the Loop Siding 1). I assume this testing was to test the transitions between the Crossrail lines and the Relief Lines, via Lines 4,5 and 6.

    The first unit exited the depot at approx. 12:45 (4 hours late). It then took the Crossrail Depot line and took the eastbound tunnel. This was quickly followed by the second unit, which took the same route. This was no different from previous Sunday testing.

    I then waited for a return trip. At 15:25, a unit appeared westbound on the Loop Siding 1 line, then went via Line 5 and the Down Relief to Acton Main Line. This was followed by the other unit travelling westbound on the Crossrail Westbound Line. This also went via Line 5 to AML (although it did not go all the way).

    After a while, both units crossed to the Up Relief; one via Acton East and the other by Friar’s Junction. They both then remained there for a period. One unit then set off eastbound and took the eastbound tunnel via Line 6. The other unit returned to the depot.

    At approx. 19:15, the unit reappeared on the Eastbound Line, then later returned to the depot via the Crossrail Depot Line.

    So a very long possession, which most probably has inconvenienced thousands of passengers, for very little testing, which obviously still needs to be done. Why can’t it be done overnight?

    It was interesting to note that some time after 20:00, the Main Lines east of Ealing Broadway were not being used and services were using the Relief Lines; Paddington platforms 1 to 6 were also not in use; this resulted in some HEX services using platform 12; this would cause those passengers who were travelling ‘contactless’ on the HEX being charged the TFL fare!
     
  20. Trailfinder

    Trailfinder Member

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    The evening shuttles between Hayes and Harlington Loop and Terminal 5 continue. Is this testing or training for the TFL drivers?

    As a Heathrow worker, I use the TFL service to and from Ealing Broadway so I look forward to the service becoming 4tph. The only thing I do not look forward to are the uncomfortable (concrete) longitudinal seats.
     
  21. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    The transverse seats aren't quite as hard, but yes the longitudinal seats are essentially wooden/plastic benches like you see on other subways around the world.

    Better that than the other way round!
     
  22. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    There are some questions above on the timing of the introduction of 9 car trains to Heathrow and Reading.
    I have now had time to read through an update on the software and systems in the latest Jacobs report for from period from 8 Dec 2019 to 4 Jan 2020.
    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/project-representative-periodic-report-period-10-2019.pdf

    This report was published on the TfL website last week and there are a number of interesting points despite the fact that it covers a period 3 months ago.

    Page 6
    This is the version of the train software that will allow Trial Running in the COS and I believe it will also be used on 9 car units running to Reading and Heathrow once it is approved as it supports TCMS and ETCS signalling.

    From the earlier Jacobs Report for the period from 01 Apr 2018 to 28 Apr 2018

    There are three key approvals for Authorisation to Place into Service (APIS) for Phase 2 to be issued by the ORR:
    There is a mention in the latest Jacobs report of the slippage to the date of Trial Running, this was also mentioned by Mark Wild in his letter to the London Assembly Transport Committee.
    Page 9
    Also on Page 9 is an indication that 9 car units (FLUs) will operate from May 2020.
    I hope that helps.
     
  23. goldenarrow

    goldenarrow Member

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    It's now driver training runs. Bulk of the Heathrow ETCS testing wrapped around two months ago IRRC.
     
    Last edited: 3 Mar 2020
  24. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    Speculatively , I reckon you will see 9 car 345s on the terminal 4 central shuttle first before running to Heathrow paddington
     
  25. Snow1964

    Snow1964 Member

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    The Finance Committee papers for next weeks TfL meeting have a target

    Page 92) The target for 2020/21 is to begin trial running on the Elizabeth line by Autumn 2020. This is a key milestone which would keep the project on track for delivery of the central section „as soon as practically possible in 2021‟.
    Full weighting will be given if target is met. If the target is met by December 2020 a 50% award will be given. Beyond December, no award.

    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/fincom-20200311-agenda-papers.pdf

    if the target is to begin trial running (start, not successfully complete it) and can still get 50% if it starts as late as December 2020.
    Perhaps its just me but it suggests there is no great urgency to this, (and I'm guessing this means throughout whole line, not just a short central section)
     
  26. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    I did read somewhere that some part of the trial would be done with 24tph. I don't think they can turn that number round at Westbourne Park or Abbey Wood.
     
  27. GregA

    GregA Member

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    What's the shortest time you can take from coming to a stop to being able to take the key out (including releasing the passenger doors)? Likewise what's the shortest time from putting the key in to being able to depart (including closing the doors)? (Also do the announcements have to be set up from scratch each time, or is there a button for "same route, reverse direction" sort of thing?)
    Just asking because if the two times were short enough they could use "stepping back" (realistically there would need to be 3 to 4 "step backs" per train) to achieve the very short turnaround times. It all depends on what the minimum realistic times to key out and back in are though.
     
  28. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Paddington - Westbourne - Paddington turnback is designed to be done driverless so no stepping back required, the drivers walks through the train while the train leaves the platform goes to the siding and then returns to the other platform. It can support 24tph if the GWML is out etc.

    Westbourne need to be able to turn back 24tph till the GW services start running through.
     
  29. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    That is good to know. I guess they would turn half back at Stratford or Whitechaple at the eastern end of the central section.
     
    Last edited: 5 Mar 2020
  30. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    Detraining a 200m long train in 2.5 minutes is a pretty good feat.
     

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