Class 345 progress

[Dstock7080]

345.004 on 06.18 Padd-Hayes

 

[itfcfan]

It looks like 2x diagrams today are being handled by class 345s, up from 1x diagram previously.

I think there are 4x total diagrams between Paddington - Hayes & Harlington / Heathrow so class 360 is down to 2x diagrams.

I'm only basing this on the number of 5 car vs 9 car services I can see on Tiger at various GWML locations - if anyone has better knowledge and can correct me, please do.

 

[JonathanH]

It looks like 2x diagrams today are being handled by class 345s, up from 1x diagram previously.

I think there are 4x total diagrams between Paddington - Hayes & Harlington / Heathrow so class 360 is down to 2x diagrams.

I'm only basing this on the number of 5 car vs 9 car services I can see on Tiger at various GWML locations - if anyone has better knowledge and can correct me, please do.

5 diagrams - 3 Heathrow (one 345, two 360s), 2 Hayes (two 345s).

Reported elsewhere as 345004 and 345055 on Hayes, 345059 on Heathrow, all 9-car.

9 7-car 345 diagrams to Reading.

 

[Horizon22]

till T4 reopens could just run 2 as central Terminators then stable in T4 to keep to schedule and avoid filling up centrals platforms?

The pathing to allow that to happen would get a little tricky. Its convenient currently beause Heathrow Express are only run 2tph (until ???).

 

[kevin_roche]

Mark Wild's latest monthly report is now available on the TfL website:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/alison-moore-montly-update-30-july-2020.pdf

Unfortunately, it is formatted as a PDF that is set so people can't cut and paste so I'm unable to quote but he has confirmed that 345's are now running to Heathrow and using ETCS. There will be a gradual increase in the number of class 345s serving Heathrow over the next few weeks.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes the expectation is to ease them in and phase out the 360s - as this was an original plan anyway and the 9-car software fault has been fixed, swapping in the digrams shouldn't be too difficult with some alterations to start/end of service and depots.

 

[hwl]

The pathing to allow that to happen would get a little tricky. Its convenient currently beause Heathrow Express are only run 2tph (until ???).

The long term plan is 6tph Crossrail 4x T4 and 2x T5 so it shouldn't be too hard to get 4tph is HEx is only 2tph.

 

[paulravuslante]

Yes the expectation is to ease them in and phase out the 360s - as this was an original plan anyway and the 9-car software fault has been fixed, swapping in the digrams shouldn't be too difficult with some alterations to start/end of service and depots.

The 9 cars have been cleared to run to Heathrow but we have been told that they cannot run between Hayes & Harlington and West Drayton in passenger service (only empty coaching stock if required). Also no 9 cars should go beyond West Drayton at all. The only reason I can think this is for would possibly be something to do with Track Circuit Block signalling? Beyond WDT axle counters are used.

 

[Horizon22]

The long term plan is 6tph Crossrail 4x T4 and 2x T5 so it shouldn't be too hard to get 4tph is HEx is only 2tph.

Quite, I was more referring to the process of terminating / locking up at Central.

 

[JN114]

The long term plan is 6tph Crossrail 4x T4 and 2x T5 so it shouldn't be too hard to get 4tph is HEx is only 2tph.

The LTP for Crossrail presumes HEX back to “normal” ops - IE short turnarounds at Terminal 5 and 2 platforms in use at Paddington. With the current (COVID aside) ops HEX always has a train in one of the platforms at T5, and each platform is only left free in turn for single-figures of minutes - not sufficient to reliably turn 4tph Crossrail, even if there are 4 opportunities in the hour, they wouldn’t match up path-wise at all. Similarly you could potentially cut out a whole circuit on HEX (down to 4) and run off short turnarounds at both ends, but that offers no resilience.

I would expect if Crossrail do want to go 4tph to Heathrow, until T4 reopens to the public the current Hayes services will run to T4 (ECS to/from Heathrow CTA) - and the current T4 services would remain diverted to T5 as now. Once HEX goes back to 4tph I’d expect all Crossrail trains to run to/from T4, with 6tph coming in when the sewer is connected in.

 

[JN114]

The 9 cars have been cleared to run to Heathrow but we have been told that they cannot run between Hayes & Harlington and West Drayton in passenger service (only empty coaching stock if required). Also no 9 cars should go beyond West Drayton at all. The only reason I can think this is for would possibly be something to do with Track Circuit Block signalling? Beyond WDT axle counters are used.

It’s axle counters before you get to West Drayton, last bit of track circuits on the Relief Lines is the crossover between the Relief Lines at Stockley Bridge.

 

[Horizon22]

I would expect if Crossrail do want to go 4tph to Heathrow, until T4 reopens to the public the current Hayes services will run to T4 (ECS to/from Heathrow CTA) - and the current T4 services would remain diverted to T5 as now. Once HEX goes back to 4tph I’d expect all Crossrail trains to run to/from T4, with 6tph coming in when the sewer is connected in.

As an aside to this thread, I don't think its unreasonable that HEX may not go back to 4tph in the very long-term, unless anyone is any wiser. Especially if aiprort demand remains so surpressed. The note on the website regarding the reduced service runs to August 31st, so maybe in Sept its bck to 4tph, but being non-franchised they could presumably cut it.

 

[kevin_roche]

The 9 cars have been cleared to run to Heathrow but we have been told that they cannot run between Hayes & Harlington and West Drayton in passenger service (only empty coaching stock if required). Also no 9 cars should go beyond West Drayton at all. The only reason I can think this is for would possibly be something to do with Track Circuit Block signalling? Beyond WDT axle counters are used.

The clue could be in the letter from Mark Wild. He says they are using ETCS to Heathrow. Network rail are due to have installed ETCS track signalling all the way from Paddington to Airport junction by now so they could use it all the way and no need to transition. If that is the case then a 9 car going toward Reading would have to switch to TPWS and maybe that doesn't work right now or has not finished testing. (All this is pure speculation on my part)

 

[Horizon22]

The clue could be in the letter from Mark Wild. He says they are using ETCS to Heathrow. Network rail are due to have installed ETCS track signalling all the way from Paddington to Airport junction by now so they could use it all the way and no need to transition. If that is the case then a 9 car going toward Reading would have to switch to TPWS and maybe that doesn't work right now or has not finished testing. (All this is pure speculation on my part)

I'm almost certain they've done the ETCS installations and were testing for several weekends during lockdown in and out of Paddington. I think was part of the delay was to ensure it was ETCS solely (and reliably!) with no switching, although that's an educated guess.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm almost certain they've done the ETCS installations and were testing for several weekends during lockdown in and out of Paddington. I think was part of the delay was to ensure it was ETCS solely (and reliably!) with no switching, although that's an educated guess.

Surely use solely of ETCS isn't the case given that about five trips have failed to transition correctly at Tunnel Junction. (I agree that ETCS tests were reported for several weekends earlier this year.)

 

[JN114]

ETCS isn’t fully commissioned to Paddington (yet), and won’t be for some time.

 

[Horizon22]

Surely use solely of ETCS isn't the case given that about five trips have failed to transition correctly at Tunnel Junction. (I agree that ETCS tests were reported for several weekends earlier this year.)

True, including the previously mentioned recess into Hayes by

ETCS isn’t fully commissioned to Paddington (yet), and won’t be for some time.

Thanks for confirming. Is the 'switch' at Airport Junction then?

 

[matt_world2004]

The long term plan is 6tph Crossrail 4x T4 and 2x T5 so it shouldn't be too hard to get 4tph is HEx is only 2tph.

That's on the current timetable though it would need a rejig to accommodate 6tph at terminal 5.

 

[paulravuslante]

Thanks for confirming. Is the 'switch' at Airport Junction then?

It’s close to Heathrow Tunnel Junction in rear of SN321 to SN323. Roughly where marked in red on the attached plan. The ‘switch’ is referred to as a transition.

 

[kevin_roche]

ETCS isn’t fully commissioned to Paddington (yet), and won’t be for some time.

Thank you for clearing that up. I knew NR was supposed to finish by Easter but have never seen any evidence of it so was just wondering if they had. Good to know they are late as usual.

 

[JonathanH]

The 9 cars have been cleared to run to Heathrow but we have been told that they cannot run between Hayes & Harlington and West Drayton in passenger service (only empty coaching stock if required). Also no 9 cars should go beyond West Drayton at all. The only reason I can think this is for would possibly be something to do with Track Circuit Block signalling? Beyond WDT axle counters are used.

The odd thing about that is that the first two nights of testing 9-car units (overnight on 13/14 July and 14/15 July) were to Reading before attention turned to running units to Heathrow. I don't think one has been back since.

I can see that the priority is getting 9-cars running smoothly on all Heathrow services to remove the 360s and, of course, Hayes shuttles were switched yesterday. I guess Reading will follow full Heathrow operation.

 

[sharpinf]

345001/02/18/19/23-26/31-33/36/41/45/46/48/50/62/66-70 are yet to carry passengers.

345066 is in service (with Elizabeth line roundels on outside) on the Hayes services currently

 

[JonathanH]

345066 is in service (with Elizabeth line roundels on outside) on the Hayes services currently

Sounds like its first day in passenger service then.

 

[Pshambro]

9T67 13.02 PAD to LHR left about 11L due to incoming service delayed at Hanwell. When I boarded an onboard member of bombardier staff was on the phone talking about a reset. It’s well beyond the ERTMS/AWS boundary so curious to know what the delay was attributed to ?

 

[paulravuslante]

9T67 13.02 PAD to LHR left about 11L due to incoming service delayed at Hanwell. When I boarded an onboard member of bombardier staff was on the phone talking about a reset. It’s well beyond the ERTMS/AWS boundary so curious to know what the delay was attributed to ?

The ETCS system manages all of the safety systems (including AWS) on the train so it can fail / require a reset outside the ETCS area.

 

[Horizon22]

9T67 13.02 PAD to LHR left about 11L due to incoming service delayed at Hanwell. When I boarded an onboard member of bombardier staff was on the phone talking about a reset. It’s well beyond the ERTMS/AWS boundary so curious to know what the delay was attributed to ?

May have been a GSMR fault which have been rife on 345s. Unless there's something to suggest it was an ETCS problem?

Edit: Maybe unlikely as it didn't start in service at Hanwell, but could be a range of other faults that require resets.

 

[Pshambro]

Well that was eventful: 9P65 13.32 LHR T5 had another issue before departure and to make up time we ran fast from T2/3 to paddington on the up main (photo passing Hayes looking across to platform 1 and Ealing Broadway looking across to platform 3)
Bombardier guys onboard were really nice but of course would not discuss details of the delays, which is only to be expected.

 

[rebmcr]

The official Crossrail channel on YouTube usually has boring 'press release'-style videos lacking substance beyond "Station XYZ is progressing, coming soon" but today there is a particularly different release.

An in-depth technical presentation about signalling and control, from their Head of System Integration.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder to please stick to the thread title Class 345 progress

The forum had plenty of spare capacity for threads on any other topic.

 

[paulravuslante]

May have been a GSMR fault which have been rife on 345s. Unless there's something to suggest it was an ETCS problem?

Edit: Maybe unlikely as it didn't start in service at Hanwell, but could be a range of other faults that require resets.

I haven’t had any GSMR faults when driving these trains. Do you have more info on that?