Class 345 progress

[simple simon]

Friday doesn't appear to have been trial running as such. It appears that different testing was underway. 345037 and 345041 went into the tunnel from Old Oak Depot just after 6am and returned around lunchtime. Then, later it appears that there was something more closely resembling what happened earlier in the week but still not timetabled.

Friday's operations are different (ie not timetabled in open data) to those on Saturday to Thursday (timetabled as if the public service was running).

I had wondered about Friday as I saw nothing about trial running for that day on RealTimeTrains, but it was my first opportunity to travel to Custom House ... so I went anyway, in hope! What I saw there fully justified my journey and whilst I might have a twinge of disappointment for not seeing a Class 345 train every 15 minutes (per direction) what I did see more than made up for it.

On my way home I filmed the last fast trains on GEML local services at Manor Park and Forest Gate. Much to my surprise one of the trains I filmed was actually a Class 315. Next week (alas) the trains will be stopping at all stations* but hopefully I'll be able to see a 9-car Class 345 out and about. Hmm, sort of a 'back to the future' as the LNER Class 306 trains which served the Great Eastern Main Line after electrification also comprised 9 cars, albeit as three 3-car sets in multiple ... these of course were displaced by the 8-car Class 315 trains that were originally built for this route with many later being sent away for other services.

*When I was younger I could get from Ilford to Liverpool Street on a non-stop Class 312 (or occasionally Class 309, very nice!) train in just 12 minutes, now all GEML services from Ilford call at all stations and the journey takes 18 minutes - and people call it 'progress'.

As this thread is not about films I've added my YouTube video to the 'Photography Sites, Blogs & Videos' section - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/crossrail-elizabeth-line-trial-running-begins.217455/.

 

[JonathanH]

hopefully I'll be able to see a 9-car Class 345 out and about

A posting in the Class 315 thread confirms they aren't expected in service east side yet as they aren't cleared. It appears that the transfer of 345031 and 345033 east was more to do with tunnel running and getting approval than those units starting the 9-car passenger operation. Through last week there were runs from Gidea Park to Old Oak Deport and vice versa during the day as noted above.

 

[simple simon]

A posting in the Class 315 thread confirms they aren't expected in service east side yet as they aren't cleared. It appears that the transfer of 345031 and 345033 east was more to do with tunnel running and getting approval than those units starting the 9-car passenger operation. Through last week there were runs from Gidea Park to Old Oak Deport and vice versa during the day as noted above.

Thanks

 

[kevin_roche]

After a rocky start, things appear to be going better today with Trial Running.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Tottenham Court Road all day on 17/05/2021

Train information at Tottenham Court Road all day on 17/05/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Also noticed that 9Y11 was closely following 5Y54 and several times was in the same block so CBTC appears to be doing what it should.

 

[JonathanH]

A movement scheduled from Ilford to Old Oak Depot via the North London Line this afternoon, presumably the next 7-car for lengthening. The locomotive is on its way from Derby.

1517½ Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04506/2021-05-19/detailed

No obvious stock transfer shown in the other direction (other than the daily Gidea Park to Old Oak Depot out and back runs which aren't stock transfers)

 

[richardcoughla]

I travelled on 345 064 on Sunday Ilford to Liverpool Street has that recently entered service or has that been on the western side?

 

[JonathanH]

I travelled on 345 064 on Sunday Ilford to Liverpool Street has that recently entered service or has that been on the western side?

345064 has been in service on the east side since February 2021. It worked on the western side as a 7-car from December 2019 to March 2020, then as a 9-car between April 2020 and June 2020, and as a 7-car again between June 2020 and December 2020

 

[Roger B]

A movement scheduled from Ilford to Old Oak Depot via the North London Line this afternoon, presumably the next 7-car for lengthening. The locomotive is on its way from Derby.

1517½ Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04506/2021-05-19/detailed

No obvious stock transfer shown in the other direction (other than the daily Gidea Park to Old Oak Depot out and back runs which aren't stock transfers)

Is the tunnel now becoming the default route for east-west (and vice versa) transfers now - at least for 9-car units with the latest software? If so, the loco-hauled trips via Gospel Oak could be a thing of the past in the coming weeks (months?), or until the next software release is deployed for the units or the tunnel infrastructure.

 

[JN114]

Is the tunnel now becoming the default route for east-west (and vice versa) transfers now - at least for 9-car units with the latest software? If so, the loco-hauled trips via Gospel Oak could be a thing of the past in the coming weeks (months?), or until the next software release is deployed for the units or the tunnel infrastructure.

No I think they’re just throwing some empty stocks into the mix on the trial running to help “complicate” it a bit. The transfers for the time being are still via the NLL

 

[JonathanH]

It should also be noted that the 5Y52 / 5G86 and 5G88 / 5Y54 workings between Gidea Park and Old Oak Depot, one from each end, which are currently running most days, are out and back trips that use 'tunnel' units and have to go to Custom House to reverse.

With 9-car passenger operation seemingly not authorised yet, 345010 hasn't been sent back to the east side yet (or appear to have been used for anything else).

All of the 7-cars currently on the east side will need to come back to Old Oak Depot hauled via Gospel Oak at some point.

There are still distinct fleets for tunnel running and west side passenger operation (although four units appear to have been recently transferred between the 'west side' and 'tunnel' fleets)

 

[kevin_roche]

It should also be noted that the 5Y52 / 5G86 and 5G88 / 5Y54 workings between Gidea Park and Old Oak Depot, one from each end, which are currently running most days, are out and back trips that use 'tunnel' units and have to go to Custom House to reverse.

Do you mean that they actually go from Old Oak Depot to Custom House, then reverse at Custom House then back to Stepney Green Jn then Stratford and on to Gidea Park?

I did think I saw one of them on Signal Maps near Canary Wharf last week and wondered if I had imagined it.

 

[Gulf1159]

Do you mean that they actually go from Old Oak Depot to Custom House, then reverse at Custom House then back to Stepney Green Jn then Stratford and on to Gidea Park?

I did think I saw one of them on Signal Maps near Canary Wharf last week and wondered if I had imagined it.

Thats correct Kevin, train reverses at Custom house and then Whitechapel. the east bound line is blocked between Stepney Green junction and the pudding mill lane portal. They can’t use the crossover at Whitechapel as it’s clipped out of use

 

[kevin_roche]

Thats correct Kevin, train reverses at Custom house and then Whitechapel. the east bound line is blocked between Stepney Green junction and the pudding mill lane portal. They can’t use the crossover at Whitechapel as it’s clipped out of use

Thank you for the explanation. I'm so glad I wasn't imagining things. I've been so long working at home. I thought I was starting to go mad.

 

[Horizon22]

Is the tunnel now becoming the default route for east-west (and vice versa) transfers now - at least for 9-car units with the latest software? If so, the loco-hauled trips via Gospel Oak could be a thing of the past in the coming weeks (months?), or until the next software release is deployed for the units or the tunnel infrastructure.

I’m fairly sure I’ve been on some original East units in the West - only because I’ve noticed the “Liverpool St-Shenfield” maps in my coaches recently, but perhaps they’ve just updated the whole fleet.

Also does anyone know if there’s extra driver training going on in the West? I’ve noticed an increasing amount of trains with 2 drivers up the front. Which East depot would be learning it?

 

[JonathanH]

I’m fairly sure I’ve been on some original East units in the West - only because I’ve noticed the “Liverpool St-Shenfield” maps in my coaches recently, but perhaps they’ve just updated the whole fleet.

Of the units currently working west side, only a few operated east side (as 7-car) at any point and all of those, other than 345039 and 345040, were west side units through much of 2020. The maps are probably coincidence.

Also does anyone know if there’s extra driver training going on in the West? I’ve noticed an increasing amount of trains with 2 drivers up the front. Which East depot would be learning it?

'iphone76' indicated some useful information about ongoing training in another thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nd-traction-cards.205085/page-12#post-5132147 and that East side drivers have been learning 9-car units on the west side.

 

[iphone76]

Apparently the 9 cars should start on the east from Wednesday 26th March.

 

[Geogregor]

Apparently the 9 cars should start on the east from Wednesday 26th March.

March?

 

[JonathanH]

Apparently the 9 cars should start on the east from Wednesday 26th March.

Yes, it does look like one of the workings that goes to Aldersbrook on Monday and Tuesday goes to Old Oak Depot after its final working on Wednesday this week.

Tuesday
5V99 1838 Shenfield to Aldersbrook Up C.H.S.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C42937/2021-05-25/detailed

Wednesday
5Y99 1838 Shenfield to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:F18254/2021-05-26/detailed

Quite possible that it is more than one diagram as there are other moves timetabled from Old Oak Depot to the east but this appears to be the most obvious of the changes on Wednesday.

 

[iphone76]

March?

Sorry. May.

 

[Gulf1159]

The first 9 car is due to start on Wednesday 26 May.Unit Diagram is 152 Train starts from Gidea Park sidings at 0500

0503 2C05 GDP- LV
0554 2W06 LV-SHN
0644 2W33 SHN-LV
0827 2C69 GDP-LV
0906 2W62 LV-SHN
0956 2W03 SHN-LV
1049 2W92 LV-SHN
1141 2W31 SHN-LV
1234 2W22 LV-SHN
1326 2W59 SHN-LV
1419 2W50 LV-SHN
1511 2W87 SHN-LV
1606 2W80 LV-SHN
1656 2W23 SHN-LV
1750 2W20 LV-SHN

 

[JonathanH]

The first 9 car is due to start on Wednesday 26 May.Unit Diagram is 152 Train starts from Gidea Park sidings at 0500

Given this ends up going to Old Oak Depot, how is it made to balance? Is it just the middle of the day empty stock workings?

It looks to me like 5C82 1212 Old Oak Depot to Gidea Park C.H.S. possibly provides a unit for an evening peak working.

 

[Gulf1159]

Given this ends up going to Old Oak Depot, how is it made to balance? Is it just the middle of the day empty stock workings?

It looks to me like 5C82 1212 Old Oak Depot to Gidea Park C.H.S. possibly provides a unit for an evening peak working.

I am not 100% sure but the two Gidea Park to OOC trips that have been running for the last two weeks end on Tuesday and I assume 5C82 will form the following days 9 car working as no associated workings are showing on WTT to swap the units for the evening peak. Time will tell i guess

 

[jw]

Is somebody able to advise on the number/proportion of Class 345s currently formed as FLU/9-car units? I assume that manufacturing is now wholly complete?

 

[Gulf1159]

Is somebody able to advise on the number/proportion of Class 345s currently formed as FLU/9-car units? I assume that manufacturing is now wholly complete?

Yes all coaches have been built. All 345’s are 9 car/ FLU except 345003/5-17/22/38/42/56/64 which are 7 cars/RLU’s

345010 is at OOC for 9 car conversion plus one other that went from Ilford to OOC this week ( not sure which one)

 

[jw]

Yes all coaches have been built. All 345’s are 9 car/ FLU except 345003/5-17/22/38/42/56/64 which are 7 cars/RLU’s

345010 is at OOC for 9 car conversion plus one other that went from Ilford to OOC this week ( not sure which one)

Thank you.

 

[hwl]

Thank you.

The extra cars have mainly been stored at Worksop for 18+ months...

 

[iphone76]

I don't have the full diagram, but there will be another FLU unit out from tomorrow. Diagram 149. Departs Ilford at 06+38 then first working is 07.14 from Shenfield.

 

[Gulf1159]

I don't have the full diagram, but there will be another FLU unit out from tomorrow. Diagram 149. Departs Ilford at 06+38 then first working is 07.14 from Shenfield.

149 diagram is as follows

0714 2W43 Shen-Lv
0806 2W42 Lv-Shen
0856 2W83 Shen-Lv
0948 2W76 Lv-Shen
1041 2W15 Shen-Lv
1134 2W06 Lv-Shen
1243 2W43 Shen-Lv
1324 2W34 Lv-Shen
1411 2W71 Shen-Lv
1504 2W72 Lv-Shen
1556 2W03 Shen-Lv
1648 2W94 Lv-Shen
1738 2W37 Shen-Lv
1830 2W36 Lv-Shen
1918 2W67 Shen-Lv
2012 2W66 Lv-Shen
2103 2W95 Shen-Lv
2157 2W94 Lv-Shen
2246 2W19 Shen-Lv
2344 2W18 Lv-Shen

stables Gidea park

 

[JonathanH]

Interestingly, there is a Class 345 hauled move via the North London Line this morning and one back this afternoon. No reports of what 37611 is moving (or indeed what moved from Ilford to Old Oak Depot last week), but this suggests that it may be 345042 which came across last week and is going back today, still as a 7-car. (I recall previous discussion that there are some bits of work on 345s that require attention at Old Oak Depot and not Ilford depot even as a 7-car.)

[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I42' in berth C410 at Old Oak Depot around 9am today.]

1019 Old Oak Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K02062/2021-05-26/detailed
[345042 confirmed on this (and then cancelled!) - appears likely to still be a 7-car]

1517 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04506/2021-05-26/detailed

I note that, on Sunday, 345010 appears to have finally made its move to signal berth 0142 that we have seen other units make following lengthening to 9-car.

[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I10' moving berth C412 to 0142 to C313 at Old Oak Depot around 10.30pm on 23 May.]

Recent arrival from Old Dalby 345048 appears to have made a similar move on Monday.

[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I48' moving berth C412 to 0142 to C313 at Old Oak Depot around 2pm on 24 May.]

A look at https://tiger.worldline.global/STFD/ciss;graphic=1 shows the 0955 from Stratford to Shenfield and 1031 Stratford to Liverpool Street having 9 coaches today, corresponding to the diagrams 'Gulf1159' has provided in messages 4130 and 4138.


[Pictures are screen shots showing trains having 9 coaches referred to in the text]

 

[Roger B]

Interestingly, there is a Class 345 hauled move via the North London Line this morning and one back this afternoon. No reports of what 37611 is moving (or indeed what moved from Ilford to Old Oak Depot last week), but this suggests that it may be 345042 which came across last week and is going back today, still as a 7-car. (I recall previous discussion that there are some bits of work on 345s that require attention at Old Oak Depot and not Ilford depot even as a 7-car.)
View attachment 97005
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I42' in berth C410 at Old Oak Depot around 9am today.]

1019 Old Oak Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K02062/2021-05-26/detailed

1517 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04506/2021-05-26/detailed

I note that, on Sunday, 345010 appears to have finally made its move to signal berth 0142 that we have seen other units make following lengthening to 9-car.
View attachment 96998
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I10' moving berth C412 to 0142 to C313 at Old Oak Depot around 10.30pm on 23 May.]

Recent arrival from Old Dalby 345048 appears to have made a similar move on Monday.
View attachment 96999
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I48' moving berth C412 to 0142 to C313 at Old Oak Depot around 2pm on 24 May.]

A look at https://tiger.worldline.global/STFD/ciss;graphic=1 shows the 0955 from Stratford to Shenfield and 1031 Stratford to Liverpool Street having 9 coaches today, corresponding to the diagrams 'Gulf1159' has provided in messages 4130 and 4138.
View attachment 97001
View attachment 97002
[Pictures are screen shots showing trains having 9 coaches referred to in the text]

So 345010 and 345048 are both 9-car units now? Have either entered service yet - or is that rather premature? Many thanks