Class 345 progress

[iphone76]

2W31 seems back to 315s on a daily basis now.

If unit availability is still too low when the core is due to open, is there any provision for 7-car units to operate through it?

Interesting as it is booked to be a 345 so hopefully it’ll run as booked soon.

I presumed some 7 cars would run through the core at first during the period when they are extended to 9 cars.

 

[matthewmacleod]

Back into the topic of 345s, doesn't look like any fix for the driver's microphone is forthcoming.

That's interesting – I'd have thought that the immediate solution was to disable whatever speaker is present in the cab. But I suppose there are many reasons it could be more complex than that!

 

[samuelmorris]

Who knows, it may be as simple as that but it certainly hasn't happened yet, put it that way!

 

[swt_passenger]

Interesting as it is booked to be a 345 so hopefully it’ll run as booked soon.

I presumed some 7 cars would run through the core at first during the period when they are extended to 9 cars.

Very unlikely that 7 car trains will ever run in passenger service in the core. The 9 car platform screen doors would have to be controllable for length of train, and this would be an unnecessary point of failure. AIUI the Jubilee Line was not allowed to have variable train lengths when they were extended for this reason.

 

[samuelmorris]

Interesting as it is booked to be a 345 so hopefully it’ll run as booked soon.

I presumed some 7 cars would run through the core at first during the period when they are extended to 9 cars.

Still 315s today (and still the wrong PIS code is being entered!), though I did notice a few more 345s in service than usual, think I counted about six.
Curiously, the OHLE was isolated at Seven Kings this morning for about a minute while we were in the station. Any ideas what that was about?

 

[matt_world2004]

Paths for TFL from pad are now in RTT. Will some stay as 7 cars as they use the hayes bay which wont fit 9 and that 345s aren't ready for the tunnels?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...4/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=XR

I dont think these paths are accurate. It appears all that has happened is the operator has been changed from hc /GwR (Hayes terminators) to TfL Rail. The reason why I dont think these paths are accurate are

1.) The first in service TfL rail train is going to start at 8:30 on sunday 20th May(Source :TfL track closures look ahead)

2.)No Sunday service for hanwell west Ealing which is one of the service changes that is going to be implemented when TfL take over the service.

3.)No fixed stopping pattern for the heathrow/Hayes trains which is what was planned for the TfL rail service.

 

[Domh245]

I dont think these paths are accurate. It appears all that has happened is the operator has been changed from hc /GwR (Hayes terminators) to TfL Rail. The reason why I dont think these paths are accurate are

1.) The first in service TfL rail train is going to start at 8:30 on sunday 20th May(Source :TfL track closures look ahead)

2.)No Sunday service for hanwell west Ealing which is one of the service changes that is going to be implemented when TfL take over the service.

3.)No fixed stopping pattern for the heathrow/Hayes trains which is what was planned for the TfL rail service.

As detailed in this article

The contingency plan
The good news is that TfL do have a short-term contingency plan in case they can’t get the signalling in the Heathrow tunnel working and signed off before May 2018. And if you can find a bookmaker willing to give you odds on that happening, then the betting advice from LR Towers is that you take them.

That plan is simply to continue running the existing Heathrow Connect service using the existing Class 360 rolling stock into the airport, presumably with the swift application of some Elizabeth line decals. This would then be supplemented by a new half-hourly service using new Elizabeth line Class 345s between Paddington and the bay platform at Hayes & Harlington. This would replace the existing GWR service currently operating with their Class 387 trains between these two stations.

So the fact that all that appears to have happened is a name change suggests that the contingency plan is go

 

[matt_world2004]

As detailed in this article



So the fact that all that appears to have happened is a name change suggests that the contingency plan is go

I would imagine if they were using 360s and 345s as a mixed fleet they would still stop at hanwell and west Ealing on sundays with 4tph to these destinations.

 

[Domh245]

I would imagine if they were using 360s and 345s as a mixed fleet they would still stop at hanwell and west Ealing on sundays with 4tph to these destinations.

It won't really be a mixed fleet though. The whole reason behind the contingency plan is that the 345s can't currently go to Heathrow - so the 360s will have to stay on the Heathrow services, and so will have to stick to the service pattern they've got now - they could start adding stops in and changing things around but that runs the risk of there being insufficient trains to allow for the increased running time that would result. That said, I can't see an obvious reason for there not being Hayes shuttles on Sundays that they could use to meet that obligation - but I'm sure there will be some reason. Once the 345s are able to run to Heathrow, then they can start to run things as they were intending - but until then, it'll just have to be run as it is now.

 

[matt_world2004]

It won't really be a mixed fleet though. The whole reason behind the contingency plan is that the 345s can't currently go to Heathrow - so the 360s will have to stay on the Heathrow services, and so will have to stick to the service pattern they've got now - they could start adding stops in and changing things around but that runs the risk of there being insufficient trains to allow for the increased running time that would result. That said, I can't see an obvious reason for there not being Hayes shuttles on Sundays that they could use to meet that obligation - but I'm sure there will be some reason. Once the 345s are able to run to Heathrow, then they can start to run things as they were intending - but until then, it'll just have to be run as it is now.

RTT would show tfl rail atopping at hanwell on sundays though. It doesnt. Also. It shows TfL rail starting at 5:06 am on sunday. It starts at 8:30 .the timetable shows these trains as departing at the same time as the gwr and hc when I would have thought they wouldnt.

 

[Domh245]

RTT would show tfl rail atopping at hanwell on sundays though. It doesnt. Also. It shows TfL rail starting at 5:06 am on sunday. It starts at 8:30 .the timetable shows these trains as departing at the same time as the gwr and hc when I would have thought they wouldnt.

It would show TfL rail stopping at Hanwell if they were going with their original plan - the point that I'm trying to make is that they've either dropped that plan or are in the process of dropping it, and so are having to resort to their contingency plan - which is to rebrand the 360s, replace 387s with 345s and carry on with the service exactly as it is at the moment until the 345s get cleared for Heathrow at which point they can 'revert' to the timetable they'd originally planned to use, with the Sunday service at Hanwell and all the rest of it.

As for the early trains issue, there are currently issues with Network Rail's planning departments meaning that a lot of engineering work timetables aren't appearing until very shortly before they actually happen. I expect that this is what is happening in this case - the generic timetable has been put in place for that Sunday (ie identical to any previous Sunday, but changing the operator from HC to XR) and the cancellation of trains before 0800 will occur a month in advance.

 

[Kite159]

Isn't an issue with Sunday services at the likes of Hanwell, West Ealing & Acton is the lack of platforms on the mainline so if there is any engineering works closing the reliefs those stations have to be bussed

 

[iphone76]

I've heard the voice many times but I don't think I've ever seen him. Definitely one of the better announcers I'll admit.

Back into the topic of 345s, doesn't look like any fix for the driver's microphone is forthcoming. I wondered if perhaps the more recently delivered units would be better but 015 is the worst I've heard so far, absolutely deafening, and the announcement was completely inaudible over the screaming.

Some good news. I spoke with a fitter this week and they are working on a fix for the feedback issue. I had unit 8 on Friday and I didn't hear any feedback when I made an announcement. Also, they are looking into PIS and in particular the feature where it doesn't announce the next station until it leaves the previous one. (Not useful on the semi-fast services).

The main focus it to improve running reliability, but they are aware of these issues.

 

[samuelmorris]

008 has always been fine when I've been on it, so I'm not sure. I'll wait and see if I get 006 or 015 again before I make a judgement! Mind you, the way things are currently going (both, the unavailability of 345s and me changing to a job that will no longer require 5 days a week commuting) I'm not sure when that'll be now...

The PIS at its core seems pretty good, it doesn't seem to go wrong any more often than that on 315s (which is certainly more than can be said for the Desiro City PIS) and the displays are clear enough, so I hope they take the time to add the missing functionality and resolve the couple of quirks about how it's been set up.

I notice the same over-the-top door sounders are fitted to Scotrail's 385s by the sound of it, so I guess those are unfortunately hear to stay.

Thanks for the updates as always!

 

[samuelmorris]

017 back on 2W31 this morning - notably there was no screaming feedback loop with the driver's microphone but the loud 50Hz interference is still there. So it's tolerable now, and you can at least hear the announcements, but it still sounds terrible!

 

[InTheEastMids]

Just seen what appears to be another 345 making its way South from Old Dalby.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K96378/2018/02/19/advanced

First time I've seen one (albeit at a distance). Looks smart from the outside, at least.

 

[samuelmorris]

One of the door sounders is loose on 009. This, as you might imagine, makes it even louder than usual!

 

[Trailfinder]

On the subject of TfL's contingency plan to use the class 360s, considering they are owned, maintained and operated by HEX, has HEX agreed to this and if they have, who is going to operate the contingency service?

 

[Uzair]

On the subject of TfL's contingency plan to use the class 360s, considering they are owned, maintained and operated by HEX, has HEX agreed to this and if they have, who is going to operate the contingency service?

AIUI they will be operated by TfL. The Class 360s are owned by HAL, not Heathrow Express. I'm sure they must have agreed to this otherwise the contingency plan wouldn't be in existence in the first place?

 

[Julian G]

A Class 345 made its debut at London Paddington.

Class 345020 at London Paddington.
https://flic.kr/p/24rhXoh

The unit will stable at Maidenhead CS and will do some more overnight testing on the GWML.

 

[railfanatic]

Any insiders know if there is any plan to fix the driver's microphones? Not being able to remotely hear the driver over deafening screaming feedback and 50Hz interference is pretty poor for approaching 7 months in service. It's as the point now when if an announcement is coming I think I'll put my fingers in my ears, it really hurts!

This is being fixed as we speak. This issue is caused because of automatic gain control microphones being used. The mic is increasing the gain of not just the driver's voice but also the announcement from the saloon behind the driver... Hence the feedback.

 

[railfanatic]

From a passenger point of view, can someone highlight the 'obvious' issues with PIS that appear in service? It is difficult to guage exact issues with feedback from drivers and not everything is obvious to a driver (e.g. visual). Note, the PA feedback issue will be rectified soon.

 

[class387]

A Class 345 made its debut at London Paddington.

Class 345020 at London Paddington.
https://flic.kr/p/24rhXoh

The unit will stable at Maidenhead CS and will do some more overnight testing on the GWML.

Is this formed of seven or nine coaches?

 

[hwl]

Is this formed of seven or nine coaches?

9 cars.

018+ are 9 car

 

[matthewmacleod]

From a passenger point of view, can someone highlight the 'obvious' issues with PIS that appear in service? It is difficult to guage exact issues with feedback from drivers and not everything is obvious to a driver (e.g. visual). Note, the PA feedback issue will be rectified soon.

Couple of issues that show up because of the new stopping patterns – it's not immediately obvious what stations a service will call at. As far as I remember, the next station isn't announced until after the train departs the current station, which can cause problems now that alternate services are skipping e.g. Forest Gate, Maryland, Manor Park etc. in the evenings.

 

[JW16]

From a passenger point of view, can someone highlight the 'obvious' issues with PIS that appear in service? It is difficult to guage exact issues with feedback from drivers and not everything is obvious to a driver (e.g. visual). Note, the PA feedback issue will be rectified soon.

It's very loud and unnecessarily repetitive. After leaving every station you don't need another "This is the train to Shenfield" when the same statement was made just moments before when the train was in the station.

Only one announcement is needed when the train is at a station (like on the 315s at the moment), e.g. "This is Chadwell Heath. This the train to Shenfield. Next station Romford." This can then be followed up when approaching the next station with "Next station Romford. Change for London Overground and National Rail services."

On the visual display, why is every station shown with the circle interchange symbol? Romford, Stratford etc obviously should but the likes of Maryland, Ilford etc should not appear as an interchange.

 

[samuelmorris]

From a passenger point of view, can someone highlight the 'obvious' issues with PIS that appear in service? It is difficult to guage exact issues with feedback from drivers and not everything is obvious to a driver (e.g. visual). Note, the PA feedback issue will be rectified soon.

Sure. It's good that someone is asking really!

- audio skip problems have improved but remain unresolved, are still very noticeable on some units, e.g. 009
- As others have said, the brevity should probably be toned down a little. I also think that telling people that trains on the Shenfield route go 'via Stratford' is redundant and adds confusion to those less familiar with the area. 'Oh, is there a different way?'
- Interchanges should be announced as the train approaches a station, not when departing the one previous (esp. important between Liverpool St and Stratford where 6 minutes pass between that information and the train arriving there)
- TfL status info is presumably coming soon? Surprised it still isn't on there yet
- If the station names on the upcoming station 'map' are big enough text to read, the destination and next stop would probably fit on screen at the same time? Saves waiting too long for the info to roll round once more stuff is added to the rotation
- People just don't 'get' the dotted line concept for the calling pattern. It's a nice idea and makes sense to me, but from hearing other passengers' comments, including other people I know, it confuses them - nowhere on the train is the full calling pattern provided unless a driver manually makes an announcement stating the amendment. There is no way to obtain that information without looking at the screen on the platform or looking it up online, which doesn't really work for irregular travellers. I really think a means by which the whole calling pattern gets displayed needs to be brought in to replace this, perhaps a line that scrolls across or something, instead of the dotted line.
- 'London overground lines' being lumped alongside the tube lines, rather than as an additional service like the DLR is a bit odd and not in keeping with announcements on any other TfL services.

Plus, if feedback goes anywhere, the door sounders are still horrendous :P

 

[Roger100]

9 cars.

018+ are 9 car

There's an EMU listed on RTT as a class 350 running at the moment as 543C between Paddington and Reading, possibly really a 345?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R71391/2018/02/22/advanced

 

[Non Multi]

There's an EMU listed on RTT as a class 350 running at the moment as 543C between Paddington and Reading, possibly really a 345?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R71391/2018/02/22/advanced

I'd say so, it's timed for 90 mph, and it heads back to Maidenhead sidings in the early morning.

 

[Jedipickles]

There's an EMU listed on RTT as a class 350 running at the moment as 543C between Paddington and Reading, possibly really a 345?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R71391/2018/02/22/advanced

It’s 345020, it’s been running between Reading and Paddington since Tuesday I think