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Class 345 progress

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KC1

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Anyone aware of any issues with the 345’s today? Doesn’t seem to be many out in the rush, in fact, I’ve only seen one so far versus 8 315s.
 

iphone76

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Anyone aware of any issues with the 345’s today? Doesn’t seem to be many out in the rush, in fact, I’ve only seen one so far versus 8 315s.

I saw quite a few out and about this afternoon and evening.

As an aside, from 9th December the weekend service is booked to be 345 operated and there is an uplift in 345s during the week. I'm sure that will be a great improvement.
 

AlexNL

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There are no 12 car 345s, they only exist as 7 coach fixed formations and 9 coach fixed formations. The 7 coach ones will be lengthened to 9 coaches after infrastructure upgrades on the Anglian side are completed.
 

straller

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There are no 12 car 345s, they only exist as 7 coach fixed formations and 9 coach fixed formations. The 7 coach ones will be lengthened to 9 coaches after infrastructure upgrades on the Anglian side are completed.
Ah, correct. Had them and the 700s mixed up.
 

ijmad

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Are there any 12 car 345s in service right now? Or are they running at 8 cars only?

The 345's carriages are all 23m, whereas Class 700 carriages are 20m. This means a 9 carriage Crossrail train is a bit longer than a (non-existent..) 10 carriage Thameslink train. If Crossrail is ever extended to 11 carriages this would be slightly longer than a 12 carriage Thameslink train, although as to whether this will ever happen we'll see.

I think the capacity will be needed but extending platforms, especially Heathrow's, might be cost prohibitive (though the Core stations have been built with this in mind). Likely much cheaper similar benefits from increasing the frequency from 24tph to 28tph or 30tph if it fills up.
 

absolutelymilk

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I think the capacity will be needed but extending platforms, especially Heathrow's, might be cost prohibitive (though the Core stations have been built with this in mind). Likely much cheaper similar benefits from increasing the frequency from 24tph to 28tph or 30tph if it fills up.

Do all of the Abbey Wood branch stations have platforms long enough for 11 car trains? According to Wikipedia Canary Wharf does, but I wasn't sure about the others. Maybe they could run only on that branch?
 

ijmad

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Do all of the Abbey Wood branch stations have platforms long enough for 11 car trains? According to Wikipedia Canary Wharf does, but I wasn't sure about the others. Maybe they could run only on that branch?

When we talk about the Core this is usually taken to mean all the 'new' stations from Paddington Crossrail through to Whitechapel and then on to Abbey Wood, as this part of Crossrail is entirely self-contained and separate from other railways with entirely brand new stations. I don't have a source for whether the surface stations (Custom House and Abbey Wood) are actually built for 11 cars, but as brand new Crossrail stations they'll almost certainly have passive provision for an easy extension if not.

Agreed that it does seem theoretically possible to run the Abbey Wood branch with 11 car trains that turn at Paddington while keeping everything else at 9.

Indeed I read a comment at London Reconnections that indicated the NR platform extensions on the GWML branch were all being built for 9, with passive provision to go to 11, so maybe Reading trains could eventually be 11 too. Not sure about Shenfield.

Disadvantage of doing this seems like it could cause loss of operational flexibility to have half your stock banned from a particular branch, and maybe some passenger confusion if trains arrive that are shorter than the platform edge doors would suggest, but crush loading during peak hours may necessitate it eventually.
 

Ronnie268

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Disadvantage of doing this seems like it could cause loss of operational flexibility to have half your stock banned from a particular branch, and maybe some passenger confusion if trains arrive that are shorter than the platform edge doors would suggest, but crush loading during peak hours may necessitate it eventually.

I think the Platform Edge Doors have train indicators on them to avoid that confusion.
 
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It seems like SDO obviates some of the platform length issues too. Maryland station is already going to be limited to 7 or 8 cars, right?
 

LunchSociety

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Any news on when they'll be running to Heathrow?
As far as I am aware, though I am sure someone will correct me if necessary, due to the signalling situation on the Airport spur the 345s will now not run until ETCS is live on that section which will require 387s to replace the 332s and I believe GWR are awaiting 769s to free up (directly or indirectly) 387s to be suitably modified.
 

II

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As far as I am aware, though I am sure someone will correct me if necessary, due to the signalling situation on the Airport spur the 345s will now not run until ETCS is live on that section which will require 387s to replace the 332s and I believe GWR are awaiting 769s to free up (directly or indirectly) 387s to be suitably modified.

AIUI GWR will be getting some 319s (early next year) to cover the 387 modification programme, which will then be replaced by the more permanent 769s as and when their conversion programme allows.
 

AM9

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It seems like SDO obviates some of the platform length issues too. Maryland station is already going to be limited to 7 or 8 cars, right?
Surely with the potential for delays if an 11-car train stops at Maryland with 4 cars locked out by SDO would eventually result in the complete closure of the station?
 

samuelmorris

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I doubt they'll do that, usage may be declining but it's still in excess of a million passengers a year. Does the track layout permit two cars hanging out either end, DLR-style?
 

AM9

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I doubt they'll do that, usage may be declining but it's still in excess of a million passengers a year. Does the track layout permit two cars hanging out either end, DLR-style?
I think the track layout does although it would drastically alter the overlap on crossovers, especially west of the platforms.
 

Railperf

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One thing you can say about the 345's is that they have phenomenal acceleration. 0 to 60mph in just over 30 seconds..and 80mph in just under a minute.!! Incredible.
 

ijmad

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I happened to get a 345 from Liverpool Street the other day, and was really struck by how solid they feel compared to the 700s and the 378s. They just don't seem to bounce around or jerk at all when they're accelerating, and a lot of the interior fittings feel suitably chunky and well built compared to a lot of other new stocks. Guess these things are built to last given the anticipated traffic levels on the Elizabeth Line, but still, continue to be impressed.
 

samuelmorris

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The suspension on them is quite firm I think. I'm OK with the ride quality, but I can't say I share the 'built to last' opinion, there's something on every bogie underneath that rattles around loosely at speed and they've already had a few loose / rattly interior panels. Noise insulation is very good though, so between that and the firm suspension it can give a false impression of quality. By contrast the Desiro City isn't very well insulated and also has much noisier electrical components.
 

ijmad

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The suspension on them is quite firm I think. I'm OK with the ride quality, but I can't say I share the 'built to last' opinion, there's something on every bogie underneath that rattles around loosely at speed and they've already had a few loose / rattly interior panels. Noise insulation is very good though, so between that and the firm suspension it can give a false impression of quality. By contrast the Desiro City isn't very well insulated and also has much noisier electrical components.

Well, if it is a false impression, consider me duped :D
 
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Maybe it's just luck of the draw but I seem to be getting a 345 almost all the time for the last couple of weeks. Is there more running now than used to be?
 
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Maybe it's just luck of the draw but I seem to be getting a 345 almost all the time for the last couple of weeks. Is there more running now than used to be?

I haven't noticed any new units (and I didn't get the impression there were going to be any more 7-car unites anyway) – but they seem to be running pretty regular consistent diagrams now. So I guess if you're on the same services regularly, then you'll mostly end up on the same stock!

Honestly at this point my partner and I are both timing commutes to make sure we catch a 345. The difference during the peak is astonishing.
 

samuelmorris

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Maybe it's just luck of the draw but I seem to be getting a 345 almost all the time for the last couple of weeks. Is there more running now than used to be?
I'm getting the exact opposite, I think it's luck of the draw! - from casual observation it still seems about 50/50. I'm also skewing my journeys sometimes to get a 345, but I won't pass up a 315 at the country end as I'd rather be on the train in the warm than waiting on a cold platform for an indeterminate period of time, plus I get a seat Westbound so it's not so much an issue. Yesterday eastbound I let a 315 go and waited 14 mins rather than the necessary 4 before departure so I could make use of the tip-up seat area on a 345 to carry a TV with me. I know such an area exists on 315s but I find that a lot more comfortable to do on a 345 as it's so much easier for people to get round you.
 

700007

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Two extra 345s came back from the West a while ago, 014 and 015 and in turn released 4 315s converting two additional diagrams to 345s. When there's 11 off peak diagrams to cover, changing two makes a massive difference.
 

iphone76

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You should notice an uplift in 345 use from next Sunday. More 345s are diagrammed during the week and the weekend service will be 100% 345 operated. (Or it should be at least).
 
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