Class 345 progress

[Domh245]

Next week's services are all "WTT" ie, what was planned to be operating under normal conditions. There's potential that it'll be operating like that, but it's quite likely that they'll be removed from the system and replaced with STP paths as per this week

 

[matt_world2004]

Good news!

With the current emergency timetable, there is a 2tph TFL Rail service between Paddington and Heathrow at the moment (the Hayes & Harlington terminators aren't running). So no 7/9car class 345 are running in passenger service on this stretch and instead only class 360 (5 car) are running.
You can see an example of the weekday service here:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-05-15/1200?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=XR

From Monday, the timetable is shown increasing to 4tph TFL Rail between Paddington and Heathrow:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-05-18/1200?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=XR

As I understand it, this level of service is impossible with class 360, so (if the data is correct?) then it seems class 345 will start in passenger service then. Having 4tph of 9 carriages (36 carriages per hour) instead of 2tph of 5 carriages (10 carriages per hour) should certainly help with social distancing for the people continuing to use this service for work.

Does anyone know if the data above is correct? Will 4tph of class 345 to Heathrow start next week?

Full timetable starts Saturday. You may however only get 2tph to Heathrow still due to using terminal 5 instead of 4 they can fit 6tph in terminal 5 but they will need to re-time the Heathrow express services that go there

 

[paulravuslante]

I haven’t heard much internal fanfare within MTREL as yet so I assume the status quo will carry on for the foreseeable. Only a service increase for the East London side was announced recently.

 

[goldenarrow]

As I understand it, this level of service is impossible with class 360, so (if the data is correct?) then it seems class 345 will start in passenger service then. Having 4tph of 9 carriages (36 carriages per hour) instead of 2tph of 5 carriages (10 carriages per hour) should certainly help with social distancing for the people continuing to use this service for work.

Does anyone know if the data above is correct? Will 4tph of class 345 to Heathrow start next week?

The increased frequencies to Heathrow post May were indeed only ever possible with the introduction of 345's. Four 360's could only manage 2tph PAD - Heathrow T4 + 2tph Heathrow T4 - Heathrow T2&3.

The latest round of internal documents being distributed by Heathrow dated this week still mention, "the introduction of Class 345 trains on TfL Rail West Heathrow services from 18 May 2020", although there's no telling whether this information is concurrent with actual happenings.

 

[matt_world2004]

The increased frequencies to Heathrow post May were indeed only ever possible with the introduction of 345's. Four 360's could only manage 2tph PAD - Heathrow T4 + 2tph Heathrow T4 - Heathrow T2&3.

The latest round of internal documents being distributed by Heathrow dated this week still mention "the introduction of Class 345 trains on TfL Rail West Heathrow services from 18 May 2020".

It's also published on the timetables on the TfL website that 4tph you are going to terminal 4 from the 17th may. Hanwell also gains a Sunday service. Advice has been posted at Southall station where to sit on trains to hanwell. On a 9 car 345 the rear 2.5 carriages are cut in

 

[Trailfinder]

Isn't the 6tph to T5 dependent on there being 4tph to T4? As there are now no trains going to T4, can the number of tph to T5 be raised?
As a LHR worker, currently non-worker, I will miss the comfortable cl360s.

 

[matt_world2004]

Isn't the 6tph to T5 dependent on there being 4tph to T4? As there are now no trains going to T4, can the number of tph to T5 be raised?
As a LHR worker, currently non-worker, I will miss the comfortable cl360s.

No , because there is a shortage of platform space at terminal 5 you can get 4 tph hex/TfL Rail service in . But the arrival time of the additional 2 tph ex terminal 4 services will cause a clash with hex service standing on the platform at terminal 5

 

[Snow1964]

So the 9-car 345s can now run to Heathrow, (but 7-car can’t)

Extra cars have been arriving (by road) at Old Oak, so presumably the western side will become all 9-car before long.

Does anyone have updated list on which trains remain 7-car (for Liverpool Street services), or which trains remain to be delivered

Can all the trains now be accommodated, (even if some need to be temporarily parked on the not yet open central section)

 

[Snow1964]

No , because there is a shortage of platform space at terminal 5 you can get 4 tph hex/TfL Rail service in . But the arrival time of the additional 2 tph ex terminal 4 services will cause a clash with hex service standing on the platform at terminal 5

I know 6 platforms were built at Heathrow T5 (2 for Piccadilly Line, upto 4 for hex/TfL, but are a pair still unfinished ?

If the clash is simply out of use platforms, then it must be possible to fix, if required.

 

[306024]

I know 6 platforms were built at Heathrow T5 (2 for Piccadilly Line, upto 4 for hex/TfL, but are a pair still unfinished ?

If the clash is simply out of use platforms, then it must be possible to fix, if required.

The hole for two extra platforms at T5 is there, but has never been fitted out.

The timetable for next week has now been published and is available on Realtime Trains. HEX 2 tph to T5 and TfL 2 tph to T5. The units for the TfL service are shown in RTT to come from the HEX depot, so that’s 360s, but if all the paperwork hurdles have been signed off that could change, if not next week then sometime soon.

Plumstead sidings need to be commissioned before every class 345 has a home at night.

 

[59CosG95]

So the 9-car 345s can now run to Heathrow, (but 7-car can’t)

Extra cars have been arriving (by road) at Old Oak, so presumably the western side will become all 9-car before long.

Does anyone have updated list on which trains remain 7-car (for Liverpool Street services), or which trains remain to be delivered

Can all the trains now be accommodated, (even if some need to be temporarily parked on the not yet open central section)

AFAIK, this is the list of units.

9-car, in service, Western Side	7-car, in service, Western Side	On test, Western Side	7-car, in service, Eastern Side	Stored/undelivered/other (location in brackets)
345004 345021 345027 345028 345037 345052? 345053 345054 345058 345060 345063 345064	345006 345010? 345012-017 345047? 345055 345057 345059	7-car: 345007 9-car: 345030 345043 345061 345062 345066?	345003 345005 345009 345011 345020 345022 345029 345038-040 345042 345044 345049 345051 345056	345001 (7-car?, Old Oak Common) 345002, 019, 067, 070 (9-car, Old Dalby) 345008 (7-car, Ilford) 345018 (9-car, Ilford) 345023-025 (former ETCS testbed units, 9-car, OOC) 345031-036 (Central Section Test units, 9-car, between OOC & Plumstead) 345050, 068, 069 (9-car, Old Oak Common) 345026, 045, 046, 048 (9-car, Worksop Down Yard) 345041 (9-car, Crewe?)

If anyone has any recent corrections to the list, please comment below!

 

[matt_world2004]

I know 6 platforms were built at Heathrow T5 (2 for Piccadilly Line, upto 4 for hex/TfL, but are a pair still unfinished ?

If the clash is simply out of use platforms, then it must be possible to fix, if required.

I don't think the additional two platforms have passenger access, the lift shafts and escalators aren't there and the holes are cemented up.

 

[ijmad]

If Heathrow T4 is closed to passengers, could the station still operate in ghost mode, to turn trains and avoid disrupting the timetable?

 

[JonathanH]

If anyone has any recent corrections to the list, please comment below!

A good attempt to summarise the numbers but I am not sure some of them are in the right place - incidentally the two test units out to Reading today are 345062 (5G50) and 345061 (5G53).

345053/27/16/21/63/54 are the units in service today out to Reading.

345015 did 5G98 / 5G99 between Old Oak Depot and Maidenhead Carriage Sidings - what is the purpose of this empty working?

Another unit in use on test runs to Heathrow.

 

[JonathanH]

The ORR have authorized ETCS level 2 operation on class 345 to Heathrow see https://twitter.com/railandroad/status/1259872259407261700?s=19

Looking at open data sites, it appears that there is a 345 on one of the Heathrow diagrams today - 5T07 0505 Old Oak Common EMU Depot to London Paddington actually ran from Old Oak Depot instead and Tiger isn't reporting its length.

However, all of its workings so far have been truncated at Hayes & Harlington instead of running to Heathrow - eg 2T07 0532 London Paddington and 1.5 hour repeats (0703 / 0833 / 1003 / 1133).

 

[matt_world2004]

Looking at open data sites, it appears that there is a 345 on one of the Heathrow diagrams today - 5T07 0505 Old Oak Common EMU Depot to London Paddington actually ran from Old Oak Depot instead and Tiger isn't reporting its length.

However, all of its workings so far have been truncated at Hayes & Harlington instead of running to Heathrow - eg 2T07 0532 London Paddington and 1.5 hour repeats (0703 / 0833 / 1003 / 1133).

Still scheduled to run to Heathrow from 1303 from paddington. There is also listed to be a great western service to run express from Paddington to Hayes . I assume this is to cover the unit failing

 

[JonathanH]

Still scheduled to run to Heathrow from 1303 from paddington. There is also listed to be a great western service to run express from Paddington to Hayes . I assume this is to cover the unit failing

Tiger (for Hanwell) now showing it as a 7-car and only running to Hayes & Harlington for 1303/1433/1603 etc so it isn't going to be the first 345 in passenger service to Heathrow.

Does that just indicate the TfL Rail could only get two 360s into service this morning and a 345 had to be called on instead to cover? Seems a bit odd.

The 5Z GWR trains presumably therefore aren't directly connected.

 

[matt_world2004]

Tiger (for Hanwell) now showing it as a 7-car and only running to Hayes & Harlington for 1303/1433/1603 etc so it isn't going to be the first 345 in passenger service to Heathrow.

Does that just indicate the TfL Rail could only get two 360s into service this morning and a 345 had to be called on instead to cover? Seems a bit odd.

The 5Z GWR trains presumably therefore aren't directly connected.

I can confirm its a 7 car as I just saw it parked at Hayes while going to work. Considering they should have one surplus 360 for the inter terminal transfer that's poor showing if that's the case.

There were three class 360s stationed in old oak common. One of them was elevated off the ground.

 

[Horizon22]

Tiger (for Hanwell) now showing it as a 7-car and only running to Hayes & Harlington for 1303/1433/1603 etc so it isn't going to be the first 345 in passenger service to Heathrow.

Does that just indicate the TfL Rail could only get two 360s into service this morning and a 345 had to be called on instead to cover? Seems a bit odd.

The 5Z GWR trains presumably therefore aren't directly connected.

They appear to be 7-cars, running only as far as Hayes. They are on T4 diagrams, but as T4 is closed they're not quite there yet!

Edit: A bit more confusing as 2T03 (1733, the diagram in question) is to be actually cancelled between Hayes and T5, which appears to be VSTP. So one 345 circuit, originally going to T4, diverted to T5? (terminal closure?) now terminating at Hayes for "reasons other".

 

[Horizon22]

Apparently this is just due to a 360 failure and the 345 being a replacement.

 

[goldenarrow]

If Heathrow T4 is closed to passengers, could the station still operate in ghost mode, to turn trains and avoid disrupting the timetable?

Short answer is yes. There is nothing to stop the T4 branch being used as you describe although utilizing the additional platform at West Drayton may be an easier score.

 

[matt_world2004]

Short answer is yes. There is nothing to stop the T4 branch being used as you describe although utilizing the additional platform at West Drayton may be an easier score.

if they are not serving the airport at all terminating at Hayes like they have been doing is the most effecient use of rolling stock. It will require an extra 2 trains iirc to serve the airport when the current service pattern sees the Hayes and Harlington terminators extended to T4.

However given that TfL rail isn't exactly short of rolling stock or drivers due to the crossrail core being delayed , running the trains oos to terminal 4 won't exactly cost them much. I suspect walk through checks at Heathrow central are probably both too time consuming ( Those trains take a good 5 minutes to walk through) and are probably considered dangerous in current circumstances given that their purpose is to wake sleeping / lost passengers

 

[JonathanH]

If anyone has any recent corrections to the list, please comment below!

I reckon the list, based on postings to ukmodernemu and other lists, of units in service with last sighting dates is as follows:

9-car, in service, Western Side	7-car, in service, Western Side	On test, Western Side	7-car, in service, Eastern Side	Other units used in service
345021 (12/5) 345027 (12/5) 345028 (6/5) 345037 (11/5) 345053 (12/5) 345054 (12/5) 345058 (26/4) * 345060 (11/5) 345063 +(12/5) 345064 +(11/5) * 345058 since used for test (11/5) + 345063 and 345064 previously operated as 7-car units 9-car operation resumed on 10/3/20	345007 (7/5) 345010 (17/4) 345013 (6/5) 345014 (20/4) 345015 (12/5) 345016 (12/5) 345017 (7/5) 345022 (24/4) 345047 (2/5) * reported to have recently moved to Ilford	345004 (4/5) 345030 (30/4) + 345034 (8/5) 345035 (7/5) + 345043 (8/5) 345061 (12/5) 345062 (12/5) 345065 (14/5) + 345030 and 345035 have previously been in passenger service but not since 9-car operation resumed with effect from 10/3/20 Other units likely to be in use on Heathrow testing?	345006 (11/5) 345008 (12/5) 345009 (12/5) 345011 (12/5) 345020 (12/5) 345029 (12/5) 345038 (12/5) 345039 (11/5) 345040 (12/5) 345042 (10/5) 345044 (11/5) 345049 (11/5) 345052 (12/5) 345056 (12/5) 345057 (12/5)	Used in passenger service (all 7-car) but not recently reported operating 345003 and 345012 reported to have moved to Ilford (7/5 and 4/5) 345005 and 345051 reported to have moved to Old Oak Depot (9/4 and 29/4) 345055 and 345059 not recently reported in service (9-car conversion?)

Other units, none of which have been used in passenger service are as follows - all of 345024/25/31/32/33/36/41/50 have been reported in use for central section testing

345001 – reported on delivery to Old Oak Depot 10/2/20
345002 – reported Old Dalby 23/4/20
345018 – reported at Ilford (Ley Street Sidings) 14/2/20 - still there
345019 – assumed at Old Dalby
345023 – reported returning from Worksop to Old Oak Depot 6/5/20
345024 – Central Section Test Unit
345025 – Central Section Test Unit
345026 – moved Old Dalby to Worksop on 14/5/20
345031 – Central Section Test Unit
345032 – Central Section Test Unit
345033 – Central Section Test Unit
345036 – Central Section Test Unit
345041 – Central Section Test Unit
345045 – reported heading to Worksop on 19/11/19
345046 – moved Worksop to Old Dalby on 14/5/20
345048 – moved Worksop to Old Dalby on 13/5/20
345050 – Central Section Test Unit
345066 – Old Oak Depot (reported on test 3/12/19)
345067 – reported at Old Oak Depot (30/9/19)
345068 – reported on delivery to Old Oak Depot (29/10/19)
345069 – reported on delivery to Old Oak Depot (28/11/19)
345070 – reported on delivery to Old Oak Depot (10/12/19)

 

[Snow1964]

Apparently this is just due to a 360 failure and the 345 being a replacement.

Are you saying couldn’t find enough serviceable trains (even though there are loads of 9-car 345s)

Not clear to me now that 9car trains have safely case why any 360s need to be used anymore, or is it just an extended transition period

 

[59CosG95]

Are you saying couldn’t find enough serviceable trains (even though there are loads of 9-car 345s)

Not clear to me now that 9car trains have safely case why any 360s need to be used anymore, or is it just an extended transition period

While the units may have a safety case, there probably needs to be a widespread roll-out among the fleet before EIS on the Heathrow spur. I assume this is currently ongoing.
As you say, it probably also has an extended transition period, for contingency's sake.

 

[JonathanH]

While the units may have a safety case, there probably needs to be a widespread roll-out among the fleet before EIS on the Heathrow spur. I assume this is currently ongoing.
As you say, it probably also has an extended transition period, for contingency's sake.

What does there need to be a widespread roll-out of? 345s are routinely operating into Heathrow each day on empty test workings.

 

[kevin_roche]

There is a bit more detail about the approval for use at the airport (ie ETCS) in this article:

https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/crossrail-emus-approved-for-etcs-operation/56488.article

Anyone know any more about what the non-conformance comment is about?

However, in its letter of authorisation to Bombardier, ORR notes three restrictions based on non-compliance with notified national technical rules, one affecting the TPWS and two the ETCS Driver-Machine Interface. Removing the DMI conditions will require evidence of a new derogation from RSSB or compliance with the standard to be agreed by a relevant assessing body.

The authorisation also notes 84 areas of non-conformity with the CCS TSI, many of which relate to ETCS functionality not used in the UK.

 

[Domh245]

From the letter itself:

There are 3 restrictions based on NNTR non-conformity at the time of the authorisation.
GE/RT8075 issue 2 AWS/TPWS:

• Subject to permanent Deviation 16-021-DEV Isolation Switch Design

GE/RT8402 issue 2 ETCS DMI:

• Subject to 19-046-DEV - Speed display in MPH only, expires 6th September 2022
• Subject to 19-047-DEV - Ability to enter invalid Train Running Number on the ETCS DMI, expires 30th June 2020

So by my reading of it, the isolation switch (Changeover switch?) is non-compliant, and for the DMI it's about showing the speed in mph only (which would relate to the RSSB comments) and the TRN (which I suspect will be the next software patch, based on the limited time for which that's been granted

 

[matt_world2004]

There was a class 345 sitting in Hayes platform 5 today with terminal 5 as a destination the announcement about the cancellation between central and terminal 5 was more trains than usual needing repairs.

 

[JonathanH]

There was a class 345 sitting in Hayes platform 5 today with terminal 5 as a destination the announcement about the cancellation between central and terminal 5 was more trains than usual needing repairs.

Yes, same as Tuesday - another 345 vs 360

Same diagram as before, ie 0532, 0703, 0833, 1003, 1133 from Paddington all terminating at Hayes & Harlington instead of Heathrow.